An Electric-Motor Turning An Electric-Generator Which Powers The Same Motor ?

[guest1289]

   The device you mentioned from the early 1900's of your grandfatrher,  and,  the Figueras-Device,  and there were other peoples devices. 
    They were suppressed,  as people often state,  but I notice that people never state that they were suppressed by the electricity-providing companies ,   which I would have thought would have the most to lose from an  overunity-electricity-generator..............
     And, in your grandfathers and Figueras and the others day,  battery-powered-electric-cars( all electric cars ) were at the height of their popularity in the history of electric-cars,  you'd think the electric-car industry of the day,  would have had an interest in bringing overunity-generators to the market,   not to mentioned points in history where countries would certainly have used overunity-generators due to circumstances etc.
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   Below,  are the  diagrams of 4 or 5  electric-motors  I designed to solve a  historical-technical question ,  which was raised by   gravityblock  in the following message below ( different thread ),  the link takes you straight to the exact message posted by  gravityblock   :

   http://overunity.com/15978/new-reactionless-motor-from-india/msg459408/#msg459408

   It involves   'N-theory'  vs  'M-hypothesis'.

   The Challenge,   was to design a fully rotating version of the  M-Device DIAGRAM in gravityblock 's   post .

        And,  he said somewhere,  that a solution to the puzzle would be a much more efficient-motor for the market,  and that it's important that the number of flux-lines( of the conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ? )  cut by the  conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ?,  are minimized to just one.

    (  when I replied to his post, I hinted at my solution, without giving it away fully, I gave a solution which was slightly different to the one I had in mind,   but,   I have one or two ways of proving the exact time and day of when I thought up my solution  )

    Please Note : 
        -  In My-Diagrams below,  they are  Disk-Magnets,  being spun by the current flowing through the wire .
        -  And,  where the conducting-wire makes an exact 90-degree turn( an exact right-angle turn ),   that maybe that could be  'Curved-Turn',   and then  'Maybe No'  flux-lines( of the conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ? )  would be cut by the  conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ?
     
   However,   now,  I'm wondering if my electric-motor designs would actually rotate,  and I don't know if they solved the  historical-technical question .

[Magluvin]

Havnt built one of these dynamos. But what would interest me is, if the 'magnet spins with the disk', and we get output, then is there drag on the rotating parts when the disk electrical output has a load on it? If it does have drag, what is it dragging against? If it doesnt have drag, then we have a gen that needs no more input with a heavy load than when the input spins the device with no load. Id say thats a good thing.  If it does have drag, again, what is it dragging against? And if it is say the aether that is the drag on the system, then we have a system that 'physically' interacts with the aether.  So what interests me there is the possibility of using that interaction to create propulsion, of a car, bike, plane, etc.

What if we could develop a device that could push/pull on the aether? I might be scared to think about how pushing and or pulling on the aether with enough force to say move a man on a bike, may affect things around  the device doing such. Might not be a good thing. Dunno. Now imagine with the force to move a car. Makes ya think though. Prepare for the unexpected possibilities.

Mags

[guest1289]

 Please Note : 
        -  In My-Diagrams of the Electric-Motors in my previous post,  the Circles are  Disk-Magnets,  and the Lines-Labelled-X, are wires that have DC-Current flowing through them.
        -  The Idea is that the  DC-Current flowing through the wire,  should cause the  Disk-Magnets  to spin.
        -  And,  where the conducting-wire makes an exact 90-degree turn( an exact right-angle turn ),   that maybe that could be Replaced with a 'Curved-Turn',   so that  then  'Maybe No'  flux-lines( of the conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ? )  would be cut by the  conducting-wire, or permanent-magnet ?
     
   However,   now,  I'm wondering if my electric-motor designs would actually rotate,  and I don't know if they solved the  historical-technical question .
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    Your reply gave me another idea for these motors however,  like replacing the wires that have DC-Current flowing through them,   with the DC-Current-Carrying-Disks used in the Faraday-Disk-Electricity-generator.

______________________

   Your Aether-Drive, could maybe be like a jacobs-ladder which pushes against the tiny-particles that make up electromagnetic-energy and photons ,  except that this jacobs-ladder would have layers/sheets of electricity maybe moving through blocks of crystals measuring 3x3 feet,   and the stability of the craft could be provided by the gyroscopic-force of the rotating-overunity-generator.

[lancaIV]

A nice idea : a motor drives/turns a generator and this drives the motor ....

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What should the motor( or as generator) weight and cost  ?

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/400w-dc-motor.html
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/1000-watt-dc-motor.html
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/12v-dc-motor-3000w.html

Which is the average W/Kg -fob factory- price ? Clearly Voltage and RPM related !

What are the newest power-densities for motors/generators  ? Up to 10 KW/Kg
Based by Halbach-array .
http://www.launchpnt.com/portfolio/transportation/halbach-electric-motor

http://license.umn.edu/technologies/20120016_iron-nitride-permanent-magnet-alternative-to-rare-earth-and-neodymium-magnets

electric "Halbach array"magnet : https://www.google.com/patents/US20150015354
+ capacitive winding ?

alternative : http://www.schillergy.com/pdf/schiller-energy.pdf
                    free tech : https://www.google.com/patents/US6720688

                    http://www.enstroj.si/Electric-products/emrax-motorsgenerators.html

comparision: http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f10/pm004_grant_2012_o.pdf
Need Decreased Cost     – bring electronic propulsion systems costs below $8/kW
Need Decreased Weight – bring specific power to 1.3 kW/kg by 2015
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Can such a 10 KW/Kg motor/generator be build under "open source" condition ?
For averaged alibaba gross-selling 10 US$/Kg "permanent magnet motor/generator" condition ?

Halbach-array patent : 1995 Priority,now free           
Helmut Schiller PAM patent: 1999 priority ,free

                                       H`EUREKA PRICE TARGET :
                       10 KW/1 Kg motor/generator for +/- 10 US$

                    PARAMETER 1 : Price/Kg
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/80mm-high-toruqe-400w-dc-permanent_1954847364.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.aFo06o
     f.e.:    10-20 US$ ea. and 2,5 Kg : the difference the power density
               but this is only a manufactoring task

                   PARAMETER 2 :  Price/10 KW
                                 actually 10 KW price range :
https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/10kw-permanent-magnet-generator.html
f.e.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/PMG770-10KW-coreless-wind-turbine-generator_1814177769.html?spm=a2700.7724857.0.0.V1EdLo

                           10 KW:  4000-5000 US$/165 Kg !     ~ 30 US$/Kg       16,5 Kg/KW

cheaper, example 2 :
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Alternator-10-KW-permanent-magnet-synchronize_60191089002.html
                           10 KW:    700-  800 US$/108 Kg !      < 10 US$/Kg    ~ 11 Kg/KW
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                              TARGET : PARAMETER 1=2  10 KW/Kg/10 US$
                                                                Logic:
if 10 US$/Kg is possible and real and 10 KW/Kg is possible and real then 10 KW/10 US$ is possible (but will it become real cause -probably- against political groups interests ?) !

      Will anybody ask politicians for permission ? In the worldwide open source scene ?
                                            REPRAP-liberty included

        first step to final TARGET :
                                   10 KW/5 Kg/100 US$ each motor/generator unit
                                             
                              Less weight/volume = less transport costs !

                  Comparing aluminium price(onced more expensive than gold)
                               and solar cell price fall over the last decades !
                                   - 90/99 % Material-costs : cheaper product

                                How fast industrial production costs can fall ?
                                                           example :
http://web.stanford.edu/group/mcgehee/presentations/McGehee's%202014%20Energy%20Seminar.pdf page 9
                                              silicon feedstock US$/W
                                                  year   2012      2020
                                                  price  0,229     0,014
                                          = more than - 90% in 8 years


This would make this idea the cheapest household electricity source,global
(included Fraunhofer-Institute " 2050 forecast" solar cell KWh price down to 2 US$cents fall) :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=127&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19790215&CC=DE&NR=2733719A1&KC=A1

Only published in Germany 1977,from India !

The advantage : builder free RPM decision cause it is -not- a rotoverter !
Higher RPMs = cheaper production costs,generator mechanical friction will in future become neutralized by nanocoating and surface ablation treatment.
The generator starting cycle will be activated by hand/rotating wheel or starter-engine ! 

Only one inventor is citing this Mukherjee- invention idea.
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For conventional "alternative energy system" developper :
https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=AU&NR=2006279600A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=5&date=20070222&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
from the decription page :
As a result, the voltage output of the permanent magnet ac generator taught by the present invention is relatively constant, from no load to full load. Thus the present invention thereby achieves voltage regulation of a permanent magnet synchronous ac constant speed generator without the use of an external regulator connected to any wound field.

Good for a cheap and simple wind/water power system.

[lancaIV]

Here some information about the production process of high power density electric transducer =
motor/generator,now in legal "open source" status :

https://worldwide.espacenet.com/searchResults?submitted=true&locale=en_EP&DB=EPODOC&ST=advanced&TI=&AB=&PN=&AP=&PR=&PD=&PA=unique+mobility&IN=&CPC=&IC=&Submit=Search

f.e. https://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/description?CC=US&NR=5319844A&KC=A&FT=D&ND=3&date=19940614&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP
Total weight = 15.0 (pounds)
This motor delivered 16 horsepower at 7800 RPM in preliminary testing.
~ 1,5 - 1,75 KW/Kg

to compare with the LAUNCHPOINT Halbach-array motor
http://www.launchpnt.com/portfolio/transportation/halbach-electric-motor

The difference will be - at first- the production price :
the Unique Mobility(now UQM  https://www.uqm.com/home/default.aspx  ) version could
become produced for less than  1/10 .

1 KW/Kg/10US$ is realizable = commercial low cost

                            https://www.google.com/patents/US7888839
As a result, the power capability increases from 23.25 Hp to 40 Hp, providing the highest power rotor magnetic design configuration. In low inertia requirement applications, it is also contemplated that a Halbach motor magnet array with non-magnetic rotor portions, could alternatively be used. However, this configuration results in significantly higher costs that are typically not compatible for most commercial applications.

The need is a modular 3d printable high power density motor/generator design .

Pioneers : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBSM7QG11G8

                http://www.justpressprint.no/3d-models/generator-v2/

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                      1 KW/Kg/10US$ is realizable = commercial low cost
                An international "1 Watt for 1 Cent" generator challenge !

                 http://energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f10/pm004_grant_2012_o.pdf
       Need Decreased Cost     – bring electronic propulsion systems costs below $8/kW
              Need Decreased Weight – bring specific power to 1.3 kW/kg by 2015

                                                               YES WE DO