Magnets, motion and measurement

[ayeaye]

Citfta, you? Maybe Floor indeed tried to get overunity, but didn't understand something. But what makes it worse, is that he refuses to understand, when explained. If my suspicion is true, these people usually come in two.

[norman6538]

Floor said "Often I find my self unable to grasp what you are showing.
Please be extremely diligent in explaining your drawings, vids, observations and so on. "
Other folks have commented to me that these videos make the Floor principle clear bt most have said nothing at all which dumbfounds me. So I take breaks once in awhile and look to see who get the importance of the principle.

I tried to show precise parts of the Floor twist concept. We all know that magnets either attract or repel depending on their polarities nearest. But what Floor showed us is they have a 3rd property. When the edges are easily pushed together at 90 degrees they want to twist and either attract or repel when twisted. And the best way to understand that is to take two rectangular magnets in your hands and experience that for your self. Until you do that you are waisting your time at the keyboard. Then make for yourself the very very simple devices  that I showed. Then after you get that inside your head I can take you further.

The first video posted shows how the twist works as the magnets approach each other  and the second shows that resulting attraction being untwisted. That attraction is the "stick spot" that must be  conquered. But in general the resulting twist makes more work than the work required to push the magnets together and then separate them for another cycle.

As I understand Floor was trying to use the twisting to drive reciprocation but I do the opposite because that is what your fingers feel when playing with 2 rectangular magnets.

I am working on my 13th and 14th version of these machines.

Norman

[ayeaye]

Floor said "Often I find my self unable to grasp what you are showing.

Please be extremely diligent in explaining your drawings, vids, observations and so on. "

I understand why you think in that way, but he evidently willfully ignores my explanations. I understand that you don't want to see it in that way, and neither did i, but as unfortunate as it is to say, i can clearly see the difference.

Good luck with your experiments. See in what direction the twist takes less energy. Measure the energy of approaching both when the magnets are straight and attracting, and when they are twisted. In that way you can find what trajectory and sequence has less energy, and which has more. Whatever sequences they may be. In that way you can find how to approach the lowest energy potential state with more energy, and leave it with less energy, or vice versa. Because as the magnets differ from the Coulomb model, as the result there may be different energy when twisting in one direction, and twisting in another, and difference of energy in different movements. Again, good luck.

[norman6538]

Ayeaye you are getting it finally. I could take about 40 photos of various devices I have made in my basement and by experimenting I have learned a lot. Butch Lafonte woke me up and Leedskalnin and Flynn parallel path etc.

And you are right. I can demonstrate magnetic spin in my pendulum that drops from 2 oclock and swings past 10 oclock to noon and then slowly drops back down is affected by that magnetic spin otherwise why would it swing up normally and back down slowly like a feather and stop at 6 oclock.

Once you get the basic principle down you go on to measurements.

[Floor]

eye eye quote

"Why do you try to make it look like that my experiment was V-gate?" 

1. I did not say your experiment was V gate.

2. I did not reference your experiment at all / had no intentions to reference it at all.

3. True this ....  what I illustrate in the most recent drawings, is V gate in principle although not precisely / actually V gate 

4. I truly had NO intentions that my posts be any reflection upon or comment upon your design.

5. The explanations are given to make it clear
                                                                   THAT
                                THIS TOPIC IS NOT ABOUT V GATE VARIATIONS.



  please understand this .............

Within the internet environment and vernacular of the pop culture of generally bogus / misunderstood magnet mania.....

The phrase "asymmetry of the field" is / was the classic "explanation" of why V gates could, might or did give O.U. .   

I'm assuming that you are already aware of the fact that V gates don't work and actually ARE attempts to get O.U. from asymmetry or bumps in the magnetic field.

For a more informed group of people who might stumble across this O.U forum and /or more specifically this topic.....

YOUR insistence upon referring to the methods and devices in THIS topic as functioning due to asymmetry of the fields will be an instant turn off /  reason to immediately disregard the topic / assume that it is just another V gate variation.   
                                             Not good.

                                              Now

Do I wish to engage in some infantile and fruitless debate as to whether or not symmetry and asymmetry exist in magnetic fields ?  Since OBVIOUSLY / undeniably THEY BOTH DO.  NO !
                   
It then also follows, that this is at least IN PART / one reason,  why ANY MAGNET WHAT SO EVER, does      WHAT SO EVER IT DOES    to some other magnet.  There fore it has some thing to do with the designs in this topic.



eye eye quote  /  same quote
             "Why do you try to make it look like that my experiment was V-gate?"  end of quote

   You now understand that....  what     I     have said
1. could imply
2. probably does imply to some
3. did definitely imply to YOU
                        that your experiment  was a V gate design variation.

BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO ME, THAT THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE JUST  EXPERIENCED YOUR SELF, is it not ?

                                         CONGRATULATIONS !

I just put you through what YOU have, (I hope unwittingly) been putting me through.
                                                         GET IT

4. EVEN THOUGH my motivations for the illustrations were completely without ANY intention on my part to be reflection upon the designs on your topic.
                           NEXT
                                                       
2. how many times have you accused me or some other, of some sort of corrupt behavior ?
                   example  quote from eye eye     "Why do you try to mislead people?"

                    It's couched in a question... but it is in fact a statement 
                                      Not a good behavior on your part.
I could go back and count them, but I think it is you who should go back and do the counting.

eye eye quoting FLOOR
"However Newtons laws are to a large extent, the basis of the functioning of the magnetic force shunting / redirecting /shielding designs, although there is more to it / it's more complex than simply that."                                 an end of that quote

eye eye quote
"This doesn't provide over unity If all the design works only by the Newton laws, then there cannot be over unity no matter how many magnets, how they are positioned, or how they move or rotate."
an and of eye eye quote.

GOT IT / ALREADY HAD IT / SO DOES EVERY BODY ELSE !  The operative word in the above quote "ALL"  Hence my O. U. poster / joke / acknowledgment that O.U. is very officially not possible.  Not a revelation to users who frequent this forum. It does not need repeated.

eye eye quoting FLOOR
"Force from a permanent magnet does not diminish in accord with the inverse square law. NEVER !
The farther from a magnet the force measured is, the more it comes NEAR TO FALLING INTO inverse square law."  an end of quote




eye eye quote
Yes and this means that near the magnetic poles the Newton law and the Coulomb model then doesn't apply. Not always true and not always this difference from the Coulomb model is utilized, but it's true that the real magnets often at least somewhat differ from the Coulomb model.
                       an end of eye eye quote.

                                             You have a talent for stating the obvious,
                                              but also in a way that tends to invalidate other
                                              poster's statements.  Not good.

                                I think that Newtons laws do apply.  The case is rather that
                               Newtons observations commonly lead to conclusions which,
                               while actually not part of his observations are easily implied.
                                     Those implications are not in their self Newtons laws.                                                         


eye eye quoting FLOOR
"The Coulomb model is essentially the same as to say... science has labeled electrostatic charge as a plus and a minus charge and that opposites attract, likes repel.   O.U. with magnets, does not violate the Coulomb model, it is dependent upon it."
                                an and of eye eye quote of floor.

A quote from eye eye
"A difference from the Coulomb model is necessary for over unity,
                       an end of eye eye quote

                                     Again I disagree.  And / or some other factor / factors.

A quote from eye eye
as with poles with spherical fields there cannot be over unity no matter what is the setup."
              an end of eye eye quote

                                     Again I disagree.  And / or  some other factor / factors.

A quote from eye eye
" At that the Coulomb model may to some extent apply to some parts of the setup, but this is not the cause of the over unity."      The end of quote

                                     No comment.









A quote from eye eye
Yes, but important f is not where the symmetry is present, but where it is not present. And important for over unity is the difference from the Coulomb model, not the setup corresponding to the Coulomb model.  The end of quote
                                                           Wrong
                                   in these designs both must be present.

Early on, I suggested / insisted that you make yourself more familiar with this topic before making
assumptions.   

Your response was a tit for tat of, why should I watch floor videos, floor should rather watch eye eye's videos.   


An example of why I said that you should read the topic......

The subject matter I just posted of (inverse square and Coulomb force).
               @
https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg525821/#msg525821

which you just gave a response to              was       first     posted    on    09/21/18     HELLO !

that response was 
              @   
https://overunity.com/16954/magnets-motion-and-measurement/msg543986/#msg543986

The discussion leads to the theoretical.  While such is acceptable as an occasional / inevitable
part of discussion, there are numerous other topics on the forum for such.   

                                          This is not a theory topic here.

Also, and since you bring it up,  yes,  your design / experiment is a V gate variation.

Please do a better job or else stop posting here.
            floor