Permanent-Electret Powered Electrostatic-Motor( or generator )

[guest1289]

  Permanent-Electret  Powered  Electrostatic-Motor( or generator )

   Basically, using  modern permanent-electrets  to power an electrostatic-motor like the one built by franklin 250-years ago.

   (  refer to the principle of charge separation,  by which the electrophorus functions  )

   This could be done either totally via a mechanical design,  or,  with the addition of some type of circuitry.
    (  assumedly,  the device would need an earth connection,  as part of the charge separation process )

   And,  obviously,  apply the same idea to power a generator.

   Obviously,  I'm posting a very obvious idea here,  so until anyone has any sort of functioning model,  there may not be much point in posting a reply.

[conradelektro]

You might want to read this book:

https://books.google.at/books/about/Electrets_In_Engineering.html?id=exF0dkjju1UC&redir_esc=y

Just do a search with "electret motor" in Google.

After some study you will leran that an electret motor will have low torque because the field strength of an electret is very low. It can not be elevated like a magnetic coil by just running more power through it. There is only so much charge which can be trapped in an electret.

I do not want to discourage research, but look at the obvious before talking. You have to learn what is allready known before dreaming about improvements.

There may not be much point in posting before you have studied the subject to a certain depth.

Greetings, Conrad

[sm0ky2]

Electrets can be used to initiate charge separation
And, in some cases, charge an object over time,
through induction.


Two opposing electrets can double the potential.
In a round- about way its like connecting batteries
In series.


What's really interesting about these things
Is when you use them in coils in a magnetic
Motor/Generator.
In the proper configuration, the electret acts
In its' quasi-diamagnetic state, and helps push
The rotor out of the field.

This action led to my discovery that the boundary
Of a static-electric field exhibits diamagnetism
When moving through a magnetic field.

[Zephir]

Usage of electret in electrostatic motor is analogous to usage of permanent magnet in electromagnetic motor.
We can charge capacitor with wire and/or power magnet with coil, but their replacement with special materials generating these fields doesn't bring any overunity by itself.

[guest1289]

conradelektro

You might want to read this book:

https://books.google.at/books/about/Electrets_In_Engineering.html?id=exF0dkjju1UC&redir_esc=y

Just do a search with "electret motor" in Google.

After some study you will leran that an electret motor will have low torque because the field strength of an electret is very low. It can not be elevated like a magnetic coil by just running more power through it. There is only so much charge which can be trapped in an electret.

    I tried reading that book, but the page-controls/buttons are in another language,  and also,  it will be too much reading for me at the moment .
     However, I did do some searches in it's text.

    So just to clarify what I'm looking for is :
        'An Electrostatic-Motor Which Is Only Powered By A Modern-Permanent-Electret, Like The Ones Found In Electret-Microphones'( those electrets seem to last 20+ years, so a correctly designed motor should spin for 20+ years )  ,   one with no  external-energy-input  at all .
           Or  :
         even  just   'An Electrostatic-Motor Which Is Only Powered By Antique Electret'( beeswax/resin electrets retain their charge for a few days,  so a correctly designed motor should spin for a few days )
         I realize the charged-nodes on something like the franklin motor from 250-years ago may possibly be defined as electrets,  but obviously those motors don't spin for very long.

    At the moment I'm only looking for it just as a  perpetual-motion device,   just to see if anyone has ever designed and built one that worked successfully,   however,  in all my searching on google,  I have never found one.
    Once I find a successful design,  I hope to see if it can be improved/modified into something more powerful,  by,  for example,    using any minuscule power generated to continually charge some temporary electrets to increase motor power,   and by continually repeating that cycle,  see if energy can be multiplied.

   (  Note : Obviously ,  those electrostatic-motors powered by aerials( to collect atmospheric electrostatic charge ),  or any other electrical charge directly from the environment,  don't count for my search,  because to me they are like  solar/wind energy,  limited in their potential  )
____________

    sm0ky2

This action led to my discovery that the boundary
Of a static-electric field exhibits diamagnetism
When moving through a magnetic field.

        You might be able to definitively/definitely  prove that by  floating  an  electret?  above  a magnet( or,  in one or more fields of only  permanent-magnets,   'not'  electromagnets )
          Although,  it seems that  permanent-magnets  also have detectable  electric-fields .
You can see the proof,  a photo,   in the quoted-text below,  which has a  web-page-link,   I originally posted this on another thread         

-  The proof that a  permanent-magnet( an unpowered-magnet )  has an electric-field can be viewed when a magnet is frozen solid in water,  the  Electric-Field then becomes clearly visible
        In the webpage below, find the text -  "Notice the angle of the electric field thats perpendicular to the magnet" - ,  to see the photo of the frozen magnetic-field of a permanent-magnet
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/9680-tube-driven-tpus-construction-zone-5.html
          However,  I wonder if when you freeze a permanent-magnet,  it may become closer to being a super-conductor,  which is actually different to a room-temperature permanent-magnet,  but obviously a frozen permanent-magnet is not as cold as a  super-conductor( a much lower temperature,  frozen permanent-magnet )

_____________

Zephir

Usage of electret in electrostatic motor is analogous to usage of permanent magnet in electromagnetic motor.
We can charge capacitor with wire and/or power magnet with coil, but their replacement with special materials generating these fields doesn't bring any overunity by itself.

    yes, exactly

   And what I'm looking for is :
        'An Electrostatic-Motor Which Is Only Powered By A Modern-Permanent-Electret, Like The Ones Found In Electret-Microphones'( those electrets seem to last 20+ years, so a correctly designed motor should spin for 20+ years )  ,   one with no  external-energy-input  at all .

    As far as I know,  no one has ever made or designed one

     Maybe a purely mechanical/electrostatic one could be designed ,  or maybe it would need some modern circuitry too shift charges around