Searching for Buddy in promising magnet motor Project.

[shylo]

It travels in both directions all the time.
One side is always a little stronger than the other.
I'm trying to to collect the stronger to drive the weaker.
artv

[shylo]

Hi Carrol,
"However your idea about changing the magnetic strength of a coil as it approaches and recedes from a magnet may have some interesting effects.  I feel that aspect of your idea is worth pursuing."

Try flipping it, to reverse the drag.
artv

[tinman]

 author=Erfinder link=topic=17116.msg499423#msg499423 date=1486395812]

sure he is....?

Post 2

Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases.

sure it does....?

Yes,i am sure it dose.

your opinion....right....not a question.  I'm thinking the godfather of induction would have a negative opinion of your opinion.

Im sure the godfather would agree with known science,and not have much time for whackadoo crackpot's.

What current......not a question....

The induced current--you know,the very stuff that is powering the computer you are typing on now.


I just new you would show up here EF,and destroy yet another thread with your warped understanding of power.
You are so predictable 


Brad

[aether22]

Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases. It usually increases as the distance between magnet and coil decreases, and visa versa. An increasing field strength and the resulting current flow however repels its (normally approaching) source by means of the reactive field, while a decreasing strength of the inducer causes the reactive field to attract the source, to hold it back, prevent it from moving away, brake it.
That is Lenz law 101.


Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation, and likewise increase the field strength while moving away, or in simple terms, it would be attracted when getting closer and pushed away when already moving away.

Ok, maybe I didn't understand your idea.


"Most significant is the observation, that current flows, say, CW when the applied field strength increases, and CCW when it decreases."


Ok, so if the pole of a permanent magnet approaches a coil, then first it will induce a voltage that will try and move the electrons in a CCW direction say such that it repels the magnets approach with the resultant magnetic field in the pickup coil.


And then if the impedance of the pickup coil is not too great, then when you move the magnet and coil apart they will attract which is to say the current in the coil is now CW.

Ok, so far we are on the same page, right?  That covers and agrees with everything above your "Lenz Law 101 comment".


"Now, this implies, logically, that if I had a magnet that is reducing its field strength, the closer it gets to the coil will reduce instead of increase the field strength on approximation"


hmmm, I think that sentence has some wrongly used words, but I think you are trying to say this "Therefore, if I had an electromagnet that approaches the pickup coil such that it's field was decreasing such that the pickup coils feels the field getting weaker as it approaches".


Ok, this is different to what I first thought you were saying, and it is an interesting idea.


Ok, so let's try and run this through some steps.


Step 1: Starting state, 2 air core electromagnets (one called the pickup coil) are separated by a distance of say 2cm, neither is energized.
note: Air cores simplify things a lot!
Step 2: One electromagnet passes a current, as it's magnetic field increases it loses electrical energy (a counter voltage is induced) from it's self inductance that would be regained if the field is later collapsed. Meanwhile the other electromagnet was open circuit and did not contribute.
Step 3: The electromagnet that passed the current reach it's maximum current from the applied voltage, at this point the is no more induction.
Step 4: The powered electromagnets field extends to the pickup coil that is 2 cm away, it begins to move closer to the pickup coil, but simultaneously the current through the electromagnet is decreased at a faster rate than the approach, as such there is indeed an induction in the pickup coil and the current flow from it has attracted the coil and given both kinetic energy AND electrical energy into the pickup coil!


So, what we must look at is what happened to the energy invested into the first electromagnet in which we invested electrical energy.
As you will recall the self impedance of that coil means that even if it were a superconductor, we would have had to invest energy to establish the magnetic field.


As such it needs to get that energy back from the collapse.


So now we see that the pickup coil is getting the energy from the collapse!  It is collecting the energy instead!


Let's say we have these 2 coils at a fixed distance, we energize one establishing a magnetic field while the other is open circuit, then we decrease the magnetic field in the energized one while we tap the energy from the second inductively coupled coil, did it work?  Yes!
Is it Free Energy?  No!
Because they can't both tap that same energy and both get the full amount from it!


This same inductive effect is what is happening with your generator, except it isn't a generator as the induction is not created by the approach by transformer effects!  You have created something like an automotive ignition coil!


It is NOT a generator as the motion does not induce the energy, actually it opposes the energy induced in the pickup coil!
If the motion was faster and if the collapse was not complete, there the 2 effects would balance out and there would be no energy induced into the pickup coil!


So what have you made?


You have made a transformer+motor!
It won't create energy, or at least not based of conventional electromagnetism!


Free Energy, besides Nuclear, Solar, Thermal etc..  Is all based on Aetheric engineering.


You cannot find a logical loop-hole, it is only yourself you have outsmarted!

[dieter]

Haha, Aether, for a sec I thought you were on the right track. You actually were, but then twisted things and finally wove in some es-aetheric power source.


I don't want to explain the obvious, but for once let me elaborate:


I never said the dynamic magnet on the rotor is an Emagnet, but indeed it could be one and you could use a tank cirquit to swap the required energy between cap and coil at very low cost.


I also didn't say Emagnet for the main static, to be dimmed, Magnet field, this would more likely be a huge PM.


All your comparations with sklid state transformers etc. make no sense, since motion, in particular rotation of the Rotor, is an integral Part of the energy lead out and also condition for the induction of this kind. In a transformer you cannot get closer and weaker at the same time. Motion is the further dimension here.


There is also no collapsing field in any way, except the polarity flip in the pickup coil, which is not collapsing per se, no back EMF spike or something.


I explained this a hundred times, and as it is extremly simple and I yet am misunderstood most of the times, I hope you don't mind if I'm getting a little tired of re-explaining. Ok my english is bad, sorry, but it's the same in german.


I suggest, before you explain me further why it cannot work you understand what I was talking again, see also the other thread about Lenzless Generator.


Just this: For the sake of simplicity:
The main, fixed Magnet is a big PM.
The Pickupcoil is shortened.
The Rotor moves between said PM and Coil.
The Rotor consists kn the PM side of a shield that dimms the fieldstrength, seen by the coil.
The Rotor consists on the coil side a small PM that is oriented the same way like the fixed big PM and acts solely as a grip for the coil, but does not significantly alter the dimming by the shield.


[] stator pm
= rotor shield
'  rotor pm
# stator coil


That of course is only an experimental setup.