Where the OVERUNITY using INDUCTION COILS comes from (eg Joule Thief)

[antijon]

  Brad what are you talking about?

Of course a large electromagnet has high inductive reactance! A transformer with no load on the secondary is an electromagnet, and how strong do you think it's magnetic field is? It's not strong at all, because the field is equal to the power consumed by the coil, minus it's internal resistance.

I don't know if you're arguing for the sake of it or if you're being serious.

[tinman]

Brad what are you talking about?

Of course a large electromagnet has high inductive reactance!

That depends on the electromagnets design,which would depend on it's inductance value.
We can design an electromagnet with a very strong magnetic field,but with low inductance value,or one with a strong magnetic field,but with a high inductance value.

A transformer with no load on the secondary is an electromagnet,

No it's not.
Get your self a transformer,power it up with the secondary either open or loaded,and see how much iron or steel you can pick up with it.
There is a big difference between an electromagnet and a transformer.
An electromagnet has an open magnetic path,where a transformer has a closed magnetic path.

and how strong do you think it's magnetic field is? It's not strong at all, because the field is equal to the power consumed by the coil, minus it's internal resistance.

Once again,that all comes down to the design of the electromagnet,and the field strength is not only due to the amount of current flowing through it.

The Tesla BPC is one of the worst electromagnet designs out there.
A single wound coil around a core is far more efficient as an electromagnet.

I don't know if you're arguing for the sake of it or if you're being serious.

Im being dead serious.
You build your best Tesla BPC electromagnet,and i'll build a normal single wound electromagnet.
We will then both drive those electromagnets with an AC,and see who can lift the most weight with the least amount of power.

So lets both put our money where our mouth is-so to speak.


Brad

[antijon]

So that's what you're talking about. I never mentioned anything about a pancake coil, and Tesla's bifilar patent only uses that image to give a proper understanding of his winding method.

I would here state that by the term coils I desire to include generally helices, solenoids, or, in fact, any conductor the different parts of which by the requirements of its application or use are brought into such relations with each other as to materially increase the self-induction.

His patent specifically refers to solenoids and mentions nothing about pancake coils, so I don't understand why people use those... except for tesla coils.

Please show me what you mean by a strong electromagnet with low self inductance. But if you're talking about a high winding resistance then please don't. Resistance in series with a coil also reduces it's reactance. And if you're talking about building a coil tuned to a particular frequency, that's cheating.

And there are solenoid transformers that don't have a closed path, but that's beside the point. The point is that you said bifilar windings and capacitance doesn't reduce inductive reactance, and if you truly believe that, then just tell yourself you won because I don't know what else to say.

[Magluvin]

@Milehigh,
This is in response to your PM.  I never said anything about a series configured bifilar coil.  Those are your words.  As was before, as is right now, I will continue to investigate this despite your discouragement.


Dave

Thanks for responding to him in public. I just went through a week or so of his crap in pm. Your post is in agreement of my arguments against him. We had about a 7 member audience which he pm chained earlier, so this round I included Stefan. One of my complaints was that he discourages people here from doing things that we are suppose to be doing here.. He denied it, but here we go again. More evidence. 

If it continues I suggest that anyone that gets these pms from him report them to Stefan.     He is on moderation for his garbage and he thinks he has a right to continue his deeds in pm attacks. We dont need his negative bias here any longer.  Something wrong with that guy.

Mags

[tinman]

So that's what you're talking about. I never mentioned anything about a pancake coil, and Tesla's bifilar patent only uses that image to give a proper understanding of his winding method.

His patent specifically refers to solenoids and mentions nothing about pancake coils, so I don't understand why people use those... except for tesla coils.

Please show me what you mean by a strong electromagnet with low self inductance. But if you're talking about a high winding resistance then please don't. Resistance in series with a coil also reduces it's reactance. And if you're talking about building a coil tuned to a particular frequency, that's cheating.

And there are solenoid transformers that don't have a closed path, but that's beside the point. The point is that you said bifilar windings and capacitance doesn't reduce inductive reactance, and if you truly believe that, then just tell yourself you won because I don't know what else to say.

First off,i never said an increase in winding capacitance dose not reduce CEMF.
I said that no mater how much you try and increase winding capacitance,an inductor will always have CEMF-so lets get that righht,and dont start saying i said things i never said.

Second-my challenge stands-build any type of bifilar transformer or electromagnet you like,and i will beat it in every way.

Brad