Overunity is it possible?

[AlienGrey]

The Law of Conversion is the fundamental principle of Thermodynamic Theory.
It sets the stage for the theoretical "closed system" (which itself is impossible)


The heat-pump, by definition, is not a closed system. But rather designed to
transfer thermal energy between two systems.
Both of which are also Not closed systems.


If it were possible to enclose all 3 of the systems in the heat-pump,
the theory states that they would reach thermodynamic equilibrium.
And once in this state, no heat would be further transferred.
This cannot be verified, due to the impossibility of closing the systems.

Oh I don't think so, most laws are based on 'political correctness'
and since most of us know some things we don't by any means know it all
and to some in here all these threads are just a political soap box view to many.
no offense intended but if you read more you will find out more,

ps think out side the box

AG

[sm0ky2]

reading without experience is how people end up believing those "laws"


it is better to both read AND experiment.


Thermodynamic theory ("law") is the church of capitalism.
It governs our educational system


It cannot be proven, yet it is accepted as absolute fact.


Until we can get past this mythology as a society,
we here are Wilbur and Orville.

[lltfdaniel1]

reading without experience is how people end up believing those "laws"


it is better to both read AND experiment.


Thermodynamic theory ("law") is the church of capitalism.
It governs our educational system


It cannot be proven, yet it is accepted as absolute fact.


Until we can get past this mythology as a society,
we here are Wilbur and Orville.

I for one would prefer to think out side of the box as much as possible, and would rather not believe the ''reading without experience is how people end up believing those "laws" so to speak.

If it cannot be proven then, then the fact is self evident all by it self.

I hope we can get past the myth as you put it.

[pauldude000]

I will put the answer to your question in a nutshell -- Yes.


Unity is a measurement of the energy provided and used within a closed system. Energy input/energy output = 1 (COP = 1 or unity)


If energy is entering the supposedly closed system from outside, then the system is actually an open system and over-unity is then possible, since the energy you provide to the system may just control or transform a much larger amount of energy.


Think of it this way, either the energy you input controls an unaccounted for source of energy, or it creates a situation where a new form of energy becomes usable that beforehand was not.


A really simplistic evaluation: If you saw a wire coming out from under a tarp and you connect a MOSFET to that wire along with another mysterious wire coming from under the tarp and then apply a voltage to open the gate of the MOSFET to allow electricity to flow, the battery under the tarp would be hidden from view, and therefore be unknown to you. You would not be able to account for its energy within your calculations and would show OU when the MOSFET goes bang.


In real examples, unknown sources of energy are comparable to the hypothetical battery in the example. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, but it sure can be transformed, controlled, and manipulated.


If you managed to, just for giggles, locally stress space-time inducing a barrage of charged virtual particles into your supposedly closed system, would that not yield an "unknown hidden battery"?



 

[blueplanet]

Measurement can be wrong. In many electrical or electromagnetic systems, for instance, both input and output power can be distributed at different harmonics. Some of the input power may exist at a higher harmonic frequency in the form of waste heat. But this waste heat lost is usually not measurable using ordinary meters.  You may end up with COP>1 by measurement but your system cannot self-run for longer than 10 minutes.


The best way to test if a system is overunity or not is to check if it can continuously self-run for a week or so.  Another thing you can tell is to check if there exists any endothermic effect in the device. Energy lost in an underunity system is finally converted into waste heat. Being endothermic means that the process is reverse of underunity.


According to my experience, almost NONE of the electromagnetic devices that have been publicized as OU devices CAN self-run without an artificial power source.  It does not matter whether they are labeled as quantum energy or whatever.


Some devices harvest energy from the nature. They may not be called OU but they can at least turn on an LED.

I am under an impression we can find overunity in chemistry, particularly when the temperature approach absolute zero.