The Old Standard Ignition System. Battery. Coil. Points. And Condenser....

[citfta]

But there are actually a lot of mechanics that do not know this today, strangely enough.

Mags

I worked as a mechanic for many years before switching to electronics.  A lot and I mean a lot of mechanics are just parts swappers.  They just keep putting on new parts until the problem is fixed.  There are only a few that actually know how  to trouble shoot the problem and replace the correct part the first time.  Unfortunately that is now becoming a widespread problem in almost any area of technical repairs.  There are almost no apprentice programs anymore and most instructors nowdays have never gotten any experience in what they teach. If it is not in a book they have no clue.

Carroll

[ramset]

SOooo
you are summoning the ....Milehigh ...back to the front page ??

I'm good with that !! [but its not my call

I still think he should have his own "teaching/discussion" section.

just one mans opinion.

Chet

[Magluvin]

It seems we have a bunch of experts with no real expertise.  The ignition coil circuit is very simple as Mags has said. Lets take it a step at a time.

First the points are closed.  This allows current to flow through the primary of the coil.  When the points open the inductance of the primary now forces the current to flow into the cap.  Since inductance wants to keep the current flowing the cap will charge to a higher voltage than the supply.  Once the inductance has expended all it's energy minus the resistance loses then the cap starts to discharge back through the primary into the source.  Again since the inductance wants to keep the current flowing the cap will discharge until the voltage of the cap is lower than the supply voltage.  And then the supply will reverse the flow again back unto the cap and back and forth it goes until the resistance uses up the energy being supplied by the resonance of the LC circuit formed by the cap and the primary.

If you doubt this, then just put a scope on the primary and watch what happens with and without the cap.  Any old school mechanic will very quickly tell you the system does not work if the cap is removed or goes bad.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Hey Carrol

Mh says he has asked you to post here for him. Im going to ask that you dont do that.. If he wants to post here some relevant info, being I am the moderator, I will decide what to allow. But he would need approval from Stefan for me to even see his posts first. Im not going to have this thread to be filled with page after page of his craziness, as you can see in your pms to us 5 or 6 people day in and day out. It will just be a mess.

Besides he is on moderation here for that reason. So I dont believe he should get the privilege to do so using someone elses bus pass, so to speak.

Im done with the pm thing. I got msgs from several others in that group on this and they dont want to see their pms filled every day. It just makes their lists hard to go through just like it does in threads, let alone having to just delete them every day as some have claimed. Who wants all that in their daily lives if not needed. Mh isnt worth it.

Anyway, he is the only one that is disputing my reasoning behind the the caps purpose. I even made a DPDT relay setup with a 1000uf cap across the coil of the relay and set it up to buzz like an old bell, and the cap allows it to hold for a short period, then reset for a quick period, the same as a typical points system. The sparks in the contacts were the same either way with the cap in or out.  I will post my scope shots if MH posts his so called real reason here, that there is more output when the cap is added. But I will not entertain him any further till he does so.

If he wants to post just his explanation of how and why here, whether I think he is right or wrong, I will post it. If he is right then we should accept his answer. And if he is wrong, then i will give my rebuttal. But that will be as far as it goes. Its up to him to do so or not. Im not going to follow his rules. Nobody else seems to want to either.

He only wanted to have it posted here to have an avenue to post in the thread, bypassing his moderation issue. He would definitely be hounding you to post more and more, just as much as he does in pm. It wont stop. So Im pulling the plug on this here and now. If he does not take you guys off of his CC list, I suggest you contact Stefan on the matter

Mags

[norman6538]

It seems we have a bunch of experts with no real expertise.  The ignition coil circuit is very simple as Mags has said. Lets take it a step at a time.

First the points are closed.  This allows current to flow through the primary of the coil.  When the points open the inductance of the primary now forces the current to flow into the cap.  Since inductance wants to keep the current flowing the cap will charge to a higher voltage than the supply.  Once the inductance has expended all it's energy minus the resistance loses then the cap starts to discharge back through the primary into the source.  Again since the inductance wants to keep the current flowing the cap will discharge until the voltage of the cap is lower than the supply voltage.  And then the supply will reverse the flow again back unto the cap and back and forth it goes until the resistance uses up the energy being supplied by the resonance of the LC circuit formed by the cap and the primary.

If you doubt this, then just put a scope on the primary and watch what happens with and without the cap.  Any old school mechanic will very quickly tell you the system does not work if the cap is removed or goes bad.

Respectfully,
Carroll

Many of you know what the coil/cap/points does  in great detail but if you back up to the forest it
will show you another function too.  I learned this when my father's 56 Merc would barely climb up a hill
and get us home but we did get home slowly up hills where the engine needed more power. The trick here
is that RECYCLINNG the current back and forth extends the time of the spark and thus makes a better
burn of the fuel and thus more power and it does it with no additional price to pay. In the 56 Merc case
the condenser was bad and there was spark but not the extended spark to make the extra power needed
to get up the hills easily....You can observe this by a bench setup of the points and coil and cap and then
when the cap is bypassed the spark is there but very thin but when the cap is working the spark is wider and
more visible because it ionizes air beside the original spark and thus looks wider too.
Tesla had quite an effective circuit for this purpose and we use it everyday.

Were it not for the 56 Merc and the bad cap I would not understand this today.

Norman

[Magluvin]

Many of you know what the coil/cap/points does  in great detail but if you back up to the forest it
will show you another function too.  I learned this when my father's 56 Merc would barely climb up a hill
and get us home but we did get home slowly up hills where the engine needed more power. The trick here
is that RECYCLINNG the current back and forth extends the time of the spark and thus makes a better
burn of the fuel and thus more power and it does it with no additional price to pay. In the 56 Merc case
the condenser was bad and there was spark but not the extended spark to make the extra power needed
to get up the hills easily....You can observe this by a bench setup of the points and coil and cap and then
when the cap is bypassed the spark is there but very thin but when the cap is working the spark is wider and
more visible because it ionizes air beside the original spark and thus looks wider too.
Tesla had quite an effective circuit for this purpose and we use it everyday.

Were it not for the 56 Merc and the bad cap I would not understand this today.

Norman

I said this also in PM arguments.  If the first spark ionizes the air with the first strike, the next spark of the resonant oscillation will have an easier path to jump, and allowing a more robust spark series to continue as the oscillations die down .

Thanks for all your support here guys. MH has a thing against any resonance talk. Well we know better and he is just will not let our true knowledge of the gains Im presenting with this and speakers, so far  , to be brought out. Well here is our chance to explore these things without his disruptions.  Lets do this. I am sure we are on the correct path, if we choose to walk it together.

First work on efficiency, then add resonance, and we should be able to take it over the top and achieve over 100%eff very easily, very soon. And not just in one way only.

Mags