12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[johnny874]

   Neptune,
Looking forward to seeing your rig when you get it done.
One problem with centrifugal force is inertia. it is equal to the drop.

                                                              Jim
Tom's innovation migth be worth checking out. And as I mentioned, it is something that could support Vjelko's work.
It would be a big plus for what we are trying to do. Something to think about anyways. And Merry Christmas everyone.
                                                                                                                           Jim

[neptune]

Hi guys . still working on the test rig . One thing I have learned is that with this device , the forces are much greater than you expect , so build a sturdy frame .I have devised a very simple way to measure the input . My idea is measure the effects during just one swing of the pendulum from left to right . The pendulum is released from the horizontal . we then need to measure how high it rises on the right side . As it rises , it hits a very light lever which is balanced like a see saw . The pivot of this lever is just tight enough so it stays where you put it . As the pendulum rises , it lifts one end of this light lever , which I made from Corex plastic , or you could use cardboard . As the pendulum swings back , I catch it . then I can manually return it to its exact highest point , and measure the hight of its centre of gravity .I can thus measure its loss of hight during its first swing . Multiplying this distance by the pendulum weight gives me the input energy . Much more to do , watch this space .
ADDED LATER .Initial tests show underunity , but this was expected , as no attempt has yet been made to tune the device . I fitted a heavier pendulum , but the frame is not strong enough to take it . So the next thing is to refit the original pendulum , but with a bearing instead of a plain pivot rod .
     A thing that worries me is this .Initial experiments are being done with a beam having both sides of equal length .Both Milkovic and rhead100 use beams with a 3 to one ratio or thereabouts . I shall get to this in time , but why not use an equal beam with a counterweight 3 times as heavy? Opinions welcome . My aim at this stage is to show overunity . After that , I want to try a rotating off balance flywheel instead of a pendulum , because mathematics show a 66% gain over a pendulum , and also , driving it is easier .

[gdez]

@ Neptune,
I have had some questions about the 3 to 1 lever ratio that you raised concerns about. it seems that Milkovics idea about this is not explained very well. To me you should stay with your idea about an eccentric flywheel.I have to say that most of my models have used milkovics 3 to 1, but in most of my tsmo's I have found that it is easier to make it work with the classical lever method that is actuallly in reverse of Milkovics ideas. I think that the Tsmo effect can be used in many ways, and actaully Milkovics work with eccentric flywheels is his best work. Don't worry about peolple telling you it won't work, My models just keep getting better. Some people that think they are so smart should just look up the defintion of Dogma (Wikipedia). If you think you are limited by rules and laws of physics, well, then you are. Imagination seems to be unstoppable though, And most of what poeple have thought was possible, has already been acheived. Have we figured everything out yet? Highly unlikey. Keep trying Neptune, I look forward to seeing your work.

[fishman]

@neptune,   Rheads latest TSO lever is said to have a 7:1 ratio. He said he will allow a 3/4" of vertical movement on the short side to get a 5.25"  vertical movement on the long side.
I think the lever ratio is more about what your going to do with the output, and weather you want a longer weaker stroke or a shorter stronger stroke.

The big question for me is, what is a good "allowed vertical movement"? and what is relationship of the allowed vertical movement and the lenght of the swingarm?
I do think there must be a point of deminishing return on the allowed vertical movement. I no if i allow the lever to move too much, the performance decreases. If it is allowed to move too little, the performance decreases. 
While i have confirmed (to my satisfaction) the OU capability's of this device, i am still unclear that part.

[neptune]

@fishman . What an interesting and relevant post ! There is very probably an ideal distance to allow the pendulum pivot to drop [ expressed as a percentage of the pendulum length . ] My contribution here is that for the first time we have simple cheap low tech way to measure the exact input power , using just a bit of cardboard and two drawing pins [thumb tacks ] . We can limit the rise and fall of the output arm by just using 2 stops . So we can make a graph of pivot drop versus output power . This should show us the ideal , most efficient amount of pivot drop . This is what I intend to do , albeit slowly due to health and budget limitations .
     Note that we can use the same methods to optimise the pendulum itself , to test the effect of different bearings , wind drag etc . These tests will of course be done with a fixed pivot , so we measure the energy losses during just one swing [half cycle ] of the pendulum . It would be nice if someone else would duplicate my tests as well . By the way , does anyone know how to contact rhead100 , as we have heard nothing from him for some time .