12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[hansvonlieven]

@ abassin,

If you look at the little submersible bilge pump I posted you will see it pumps 1800l of water and uses 36 Watts. Now I doubt it will push 5 m of head, but still, it is easily more than 3 times the water Milkovic's pump moves.

I as well as a number of others have replicated the Milkovic device and found no overunity. In fact I know of no one other than Milkovic that claims over 10 times the input power as output. If it was that big a difference even the sloppiest of replications should show overunity. The fact that it does not speaks for itself.

Hans von Lieven

[shruggedatlas]

Concerning actual electrical overunity, Milkovic did the test using the hand flashlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

He showed that using only one of the squeeze flashlights and moving the pendulum with it was rather easy to do, and that on the other end 9 squeeze flashlights where being lit up.

The above video with the flashlights and the video with the pump that you all have been talking about certainly look like overunity...

I know it might be hard to consider a strictly mechanical OU device, as it was/is for me, but it seems it might now be in our midst.

Time will most certainly tell...

That is a terrible experiment.

Have you considered that the experimenter is pushing the pendulum with more force than is required to activate the flashlight in hand, and it is that additional energy that is making the experiment possible.

Also, the duration of light is entirely ignored.  The flashlight in the hand is squeezed over the entire time require to push the pendulum (say half-second), while the lights on the other end light up for a much shorter time than that.  And often, not all of the lights even light up.

[tao]

Concerning actual electrical overunity, Milkovic did the test using the hand flashlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHln0xczRk8

He showed that using only one of the squeeze flashlights and moving the pendulum with it was rather easy to do, and that on the other end 9 squeeze flashlights where being lit up.

The above video with the flashlights and the video with the pump that you all have been talking about certainly look like overunity...

I know it might be hard to consider a strictly mechanical OU device, as it was/is for me, but it seems it might now be in our midst.

Time will most certainly tell...

That is a terrible experiment.

Have you considered that the experimenter is pushing the pendulum with more force than is required to activate the flashlight in hand, and it is that additional energy that is making the experiment possible.

Yes, I already considered that, and that is why I didn't definitively say that Milkovic's stuff demonstrates OU, just that it SEEMS like OU and that time will tell.

Yet in still, Milkovic has shown in other videos that the pendulum and it's moving swing/amplitude is NOT affected by the movement of the hammer/lever, period. So, taking that into account, how hard is it to keep a pendulum moving? (rhetorical)

Asymmetry...

Again, time will tell...

Also, the duration of light is entirely ignored.  The flashlight in the hand is squeezed over the entire time require to push the pendulum (say half-second), while the lights on the other end light up for a much shorter time than that.  And often, not all of the lights even light up.

The second guy in the video is clearly just 'trying it out' and he clearly doesn't have the movements down right, hence he seems to be pushing with the handheld flashlight for much longer than would be required. Plus, there is another video showing how much force it takes by hand to light up even one of those things, and to light up 9 at once, even to light them up for a split second, takes a lot more force, IT SEEMS, than what is being imparted to the pendulum (even though the second guy is inefficient with his movements).

Again, time will tell... I am not claiming that I see OU, but it certainly SEEMS like OU as of right now.

[hansvonlieven]

When I came across across Veljko Mircovic's work it intrigued me and  I did a little work on the subject. I went as far as building the device. These are my thoughts and observations on the matter

The things that stand out is that he comes across as a sincere man who appears to have stumbled across a phenomenon that traditional science is at a loss to explain. From his demonstrations one could easily come to the conclusion that Newtonian physics do not apply where his arrangement is concerned. That in itself is a dangerous road to travel as it stirs up emotions amongst physicists that, as irrelevant as they should be in science, are nevertheless a very real part of human inter-reaction. Right or wrong, people have a tendency to defend whatever they consider their turf to be.

So what does he do? Veljko Milkovic puts a pendulum on a balance beam with a counter weight on the other side to put the arm into equilibrium and then gets the pendulum to swing. The result is an oscillatory movement of the beam.

So far so good, that is what one would expect. He then claims that the mechanism does not work in reverse. He moves the balance beam from the opposite side up and down with the pendulum at a standstill and the pendulum does not swing. Case proved, Newton's third law is wrong. There is no equal and opposite reaction!

He even has a letter from Peter Lindemann D.Sc. to prove it. Lindemann goes as far as stating that something like Milkovic's discovery only comes around every three hundred years.

Sorry guys, but this is not a valid demonstration.

The demonstration is flawed because Milkovic does not truly reverse the process. If he were to agitate the beam at the natural frequency of the pendulum in even strokes he would soon find out that the pendulum would start to swing and gather momentum as he was feeding energy into it.

If the pendulum at all time was perfectly perpendicular and the fulcrum at all times at that axis the pendulum would only move up and down as there was no energy available to move it sideways. But such is not the case here.

There is horizontal movement, admittedly small, but it is there. That is why it takes a while before the pendulum can store enough energy to exhibit this. Inertia has yet to build up to show noticeable levels of movement.

Milkovic's demonstrations are far too short and uncontrolled to demonstrate this.

Let me explain:

The pendulum's fulcrum at the end of the balance beam moves in an arc. As the balance beam goes up the fulcrum's position relative to the pendulum is displaced horizontally as well as vertically.. That means that the pendulum is no longer perpendicular to the earth's centre of gravity. That also means that it has to find a new position.

As the pendulum develops inertia when it is forced into the new position it swings past the natural point of equilibrium and will only return when the energy that has been fed to it is expended. But while it is doing that the balance beam is moving back putting the pendulum even more out of equilibrium, but now in the opposite direction.

So the pendulum swings back to repeat the process over and over again with increased amplitude as long as the introductory impulses are of the same frequency.

The only things that will stop the pendulum behaving in this manner is when the agitation stops or when the agitation is out of step with the natural frequency of the pendulum's oscillations in which case we have created forces that are out of phase with each other and therefore cancel each other out.

Consider the following:

You have a balance beam, but this time you have on each end a pendulum of exactly the same length. This is important since the pendulum's frequency in this case is solely dependent on its length. You now give one pendulum a push and it begins to oscillate. The balance beam behaves as before, going up and down at twice the frequency of the pendulum.

What do you think happens after a while?

This is one of the classical experiments in physics because the effects are unexpected.

Say we have given the right pendulum a push. As it swings there is a noticeable diminishing of amplitude. The left pendulum now starts to pick up momentum, which increases with every loss of inertia on the other side. After a while the right pendulum will come to a standstill with the left one in full swing. Slowly the right pendulum will start to pick up momentum as the left one now starts losing energy. After a while, when the left pendulum's energy is spent the right one is in full swing again. The process keeps repeating itself until all energy is spent through friction, drag and heat. If there were no losses the process would carry on forever.

All this flies right into the face of what Milkovic and Lindemann are saying.

So all this Hoo-Haa about Newton being wrong and that the Milkovic device proves it is a lot of crap.

Try the experiment with a coathanger and two pendula of equal length suspended from it on opposite sides, give one of them a push and observe.

Hans von Lieven

[tao]

Great post Hans, very illuminating my good man...