12 times more output than input, dual mechanical oscillation system !

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
Pardon me. I wrote "of how we are using mechanical means of accomplishing work" when I should have written " of how we are using mechanical means of producing energy."
Aleks- you said "the power comes from 'out there'". Please, it's no great mystery. In fact, it's way to simple. It's just electro-gravity. You have been living in it all your life. Like wind, you cannot see it, but you see it's effect. A wire can have 200 volts in it, can you see the electricity? The electricity does not harm the wire, and it is not visable. Like gravity, electro-gravity.
Bill

[aleks]

Aleks- you said "the power comes from 'out there'". Please, it's no great mystery. In fact, it's way to simple. It's just electro-gravity. You have been living in it all your life. Like wind, you cannot see it, but you see it's effect. A wire can have 200 volts in it, can you see the electricity? The electricity does not harm the wire, and it is not visable. Like gravity, electro-gravity.
Bill

Surely I understand the situation. Electro-magnetic field is a given thing: we live in it, we are particles compared to it - this is a given. We are subject to gravity due to EM field that builds in and around our bodies, and because our bodies stop the natural earthly field from flowing - thus we have a differing potential than the field itself - and that's why we are attracted (field tries to move us out of its way).

But I'm trying to reason how the charge (energy) accumulates in this oscillatory system. Newtonian physical model proposed by xnonix shows it does accumulate in at least 10x amount compared to the input.

(sorry to be a bit off-topic, but such view on things may describe a recently increasing frequency of people spontaneous combustion evidences - it is scary since it is an uncontrollable thing, but nevertheless such event is possible given energy from the earthly gravity can be accumulated - it is just possible that some unfortunate earthlings open a door for such accumulation within their bodies - hypothesis of static electricity accumulation being a reason of combustion supports this view).

[aleks]

What also puzzles me in the xnonix model is that power on the spring end grows even after the "hand"'s impulse - by about 10% before the next impulse arrives (power on the beam should dampen with time - not increase even if for a short duration)... Exactly this fact looks anomalous - everything builds around it I think.

Also, as far as I understand, the spring in the model presents the active load (it is the same as creating torque in a motor generator out of a linear movement of the beam), and still it does not stop the power from increasing. While nay sayers here insist that the system will stop as soon as you will start drawing the power.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Maybe it is better to create xnonix model - not exactly 'wheel' or 'ball' mass model? xnonix model consists of straight poles of given weights. Also the point of application of impulse to the pendulum may be important. Motor driving pendulum and sharing base with the beam may not be the best approach. An alternative would be a motor mounted on the ground that pulls pendulum via stiff rope by winding it on a pole a bit and then releasing the force, or also unwinding the rope back while the pendulum travels down. The rope being light should not be a limiting factor to the pendulum.

[aparodox2003]

Ok, what i was trying to say is (imagin the device as a teeder todder-the fat guy on one end about 5 ft from the pivot point the light guy to componsate for the big guy now has to sit 10 ft from the pivot point so they can play the game)  Now if the light guy dosn't want to use his feet to go up and down, he can just move back and forth from his position.  That concludes the teeder todder part...........If he wanted to exert less 'work' to create the teeder todder effect he would us a secondary pivot point in this case he takes advantage of gravity by hanging from a rope and swinging on it (just like when we were kids-I went to the park ), and just like this machine my dad only had to give me one underdog and i could go for a few minutes.
The fat guy does not rise as far a the small guy falls because he is closer to the pivot point.

cevich is right, this looks like it runs off the same idea as a teader-todder--where the fat guy sits 10 feet away from the pivot point and the child sits 5 feet.  If this is OU then so is the pry-bar i use to loosen nuts on my engine, If i tried to use my fingers it would never let loose but with a pry-bar i can break it in 2

No, it is not similar. The fat guy does not rise as high as the light guy falls... While in this oscillator you can rise 25 kg like you are rising 2.5 kg to the same height. Of course, as xnonix model suggests, you first have to put the system into a surplus resonance (it takes about 10 seconds for his model - note that this does not necessarily increase the amplitude of the beam (spring limits it), but it does increase traction power of the beam, and it can't be limited without stopping the pendulum).

So, the power comes from 'out there'.. The good analogy would be an object made of a non-conductive material which nevertheless may carry an electrical charge. So, the system gains charge seemingly out of nowhere.

[aleks]

That concludes the teeder todder part...........

Well, but how you'll describe surplus output from xnonix model?

On the other hand, I agree with some nay sayers that Milkovic did a bit 'bad' job when he used flashlight. He could use a rope with a simple force meter and show the reading (I guess a spring balance should be enough), and then use the same meter to measure force it takes to light a single flashlight (with flashlight being mounted on a stable stand). We could then see the effect better. If we light 9 flashlights with the same force as it takes to light a single flashlight then it's working (of course, after a first couple of pulls that put this system into resonance). Otherwise it's not.

But anyway xnonix model drives me nuts. I can't understand how it works and why it shows surplus energy... of course given, those are not free oscillations, but oscillations under load that transfer shown output energy to the spring (and to the anchored base which probably resembles energy sink point).