Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[ayeaye]

No, Q is not an "abstraction"

Yes it is abstraction, it doesn't stand for everything.

The DC resistance we already measured, it's so small that can be disregarded. Skin effect can be calculated too, and i think it's small. I don't know that there are significant eddy currents in the air core.

But ok, if Q is the only thing you are interested in, then you are not interested in this experiment.

This experiment is about researching the induction, not everything else as Q. Though this can be seen too. Induction is the phenomenon to research, and this experiment shows everything about induction.

But if this experiment is not what interests you, then don't do it. I just don't want to read the forum every morning just to see yet another post from you saying that you don't really like this experiment, this is not what interests me.

I want to know some other things from other people here. What equipment do you use to do experiments like this, what oscilloscope? Desktop DSO, USB, analog, things like DSO138? Two channels, one channel? I think DSO138 is too imprecise and not capable of necessary frequencies, but then i don't exclude anything. I don't see that anyone uses DSO138 though. Does it make sense for me to do it using analog oscilloscope, yes i can do it and it can be done precisely, though it's more work. But does anyone do it, is there any value to anyone to show how to do it with analog oscilloscope? All i have is an old analog oscilloscope, which is the cheapest option for experiments like this maybe, so should be affordable for everyone. It looks though that most use desktop digital oscilloscopes, so maybe i should have one, a cheapest one. I don't think though that i can afford one in any foreseeable future. Even the cheapest one like owon sds1022. It's like the cheapest usb oscilloscope owon vds1022, hardly ever more than 5 mhz, only made as a desktop oscilloscope, which is in several ways better. Rigol i think i cannot even dream about.

Like i saw one who showed one's experiment with a pancake coil here. I didn't really understand what this experiment was about, there was no circuit diagram or anything. But i noticed that one only had a multimeter. Better get an oscilloscope, even an old analog one, even DSO138 may be better than no oscilloscope. I saw another experiment of a pancake coil charging a battery, that had a very similar coil, was it yours? Like a coil with overunity should in theory be something like, you send a signal in, and instead of consuming the signal, it generates one. Were very interesting to see with oscilloscope what was going on there. Like to see whether this was really the case, the batteries are tricky, and especially when using sharp pulses. Like Bedini liked to do a lot, they generate surface charges, that is creating ions only near the electrodes. Which increase the voltage but don't contain much energy. When using batteries, they should also be discharged, measuring the energy. And slowly, not creating residue on the electrodes, and then also see for some time that their voltage doesn't increase. Something that Bedini completely omitted.

[ayeaye]

I got the figure below by the following when running gnuplot, it's rather tricky. I think you got an idea. One sure wants to find some simple plotting program, but this is what they often are. This is a verbatim copy from the TinselKoala's oscilloscope screen.

set xtics 20
set grid xtics lt 1 lw 2 lc rgb "#bbbbbb"
set grid ytics lt 1 lw 2 lc rgb "#bbbbbb"
plot "alllist.txt" with lines linewidth 3 linetype rgb "blue"

[F6FLT]

I have just started testing, no serious measurements (my "lab" is now a mess...).
The bifilar coil is made of two 30 m X 6 mm copper tapes (like these but with non conductive adhesive https://www.amazon.co.uk/UEETEK-Conductive-Soldering-Electrical-Grounding/dp/B0755BHTC5, separated by 30 m X 8 mm adhesive tapes https://www.amazon.co.uk/Double-CODIRATO-Strong-Adhesive-Craft（6/dp/B07FZ5KH6Y.

Inductance: 2x 0.76 mH, resistance : 2x 5.4 Ω, capacitance: 55 nF.
The first resonance is at 1.790 MHz, obviously it is the frequency corresponding to a quater wave length of 30 m which is the tape length, corrected by the velocity factor.

Next step when time permits...

[TinselKoala]

Yes it is abstraction, it doesn't stand for everything.

The DC resistance we already measured, it's so small that can be disregarded. Skin effect can be calculated too, and i think it's small. I don't know that there are significant eddy currents in the air core.

But ok, if Q is the only thing you are interested in, then you are not interested in this experiment.

This experiment is about researching the induction, not everything else as Q. Though this can be seen too. Induction is the phenomenon to research, and this experiment shows everything about induction.

But if this experiment is not what interests you, then don't do it. I just don't want to read the forum every morning just to see yet another post from you saying that you don't really like this experiment, this is not what interests me.

I want to know some other things from other people here. What equipment do you use to do experiments like this, what oscilloscope? Desktop DSO, USB, analog, things like DSO138? Two channels, one channel? I think DSO138 is too imprecise and not capable of necessary frequencies, but then i don't exclude anything. I don't see that anyone uses DSO138 though. Does it make sense for me to do it using analog oscilloscope, yes i can do it and it can be done precisely, though it's more work. But does anyone do it, is there any value to anyone to show how to do it with analog oscilloscope? All i have is an old analog oscilloscope, which is the cheapest option for experiments like this maybe, so should be affordable for everyone. It looks though that most use desktop digital oscilloscopes, so maybe i should have one, a cheapest one. I don't think though that i can afford one in any foreseeable future. Even the cheapest one like owon sds1022. It's like the cheapest usb oscilloscope owon vds1022, hardly ever more than 5 mhz, only made as a desktop oscilloscope, which is in several ways better. Rigol i think i cannot even dream about.

Like i saw one who showed one's experiment with a pancake coil here. I didn't really understand what this experiment was about, there was no circuit diagram or anything. But i noticed that one only had a multimeter. Better get an oscilloscope, even an old analog one, even DSO138 may be better than no oscilloscope. I saw another experiment of a pancake coil charging a battery, that had a very similar coil, was it yours? Like a coil with overunity should in theory be something like, you send a signal in, and instead of consuming the signal, it generates one. Were very interesting to see with oscilloscope what was going on there. Like to see whether this was really the case, the batteries are tricky, and especially when using sharp pulses. Like Bedini liked to do a lot, they generate surface charges, that is creating ions only near the electrodes. Which increase the voltage but don't contain much energy. When using batteries, they should also be discharged, measuring the energy. And slowly, not creating residue on the electrodes, and then also see for some time that their voltage doesn't increase. Something that Bedini completely omitted.

You should be a politician. You dodge the issues quite well and are clearly adept at generating lines of off-topic verbiage. I truly wonder: how many people reading here have gone through any of the lines of code you've posted?


I've asked you twice now, nicely, to discuss the issue of Q as it relates to "overunity" from a coil. You have no clue, it's obvious from your imitation of a politician.


You should be _thankful_ towards me and others like me, because without us you'd just be posting line after line of code that nobody reads or cares about.



You should also be aware of the errors introduced by your processing. You cannot have a result that is more precise than the _least precise_ value that goes into a calculation. I reminded you of this before and your response indicated that you don't actually understand the concept of significant digits and the issue of precision versus accuracy.



If you don't want to read my posts in this thread, you can always place me on your Ignore list. Only people who are interested in the truth need see my posts.

[ayeaye]

I've asked you twice now, nicely, to discuss the issue of Q as it relates to "overunity" from a coil. You have no clue, it's obvious from your imitation of a politician.

Who is the politician here, me, or you who just tried to distract? It looks like that you project.

I discussed the issue of Q, i said i think the effects of dc resistance, skin effect and eddy currents are all likely relatively small. I don't say it's not important for overunity, but it's a side issue. Do you want to replace this research with the conventional Q measurements, ending and ditching it all together? If anything is a politics then that is. Ah yes, and accuracy of measurements, who denies the immense importance of it.

BTW this experiment is also discussed in that board

http://open-source-energy.org/?board=92.0