Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[partzman]

[snip

A wonderful video by you BTW. But the thing i cannot quite figure there, you have one end of the input coil not connected as i understand. Now you have no closed circuit with wires through the output coil of the input transformer, that is, there is nowhere to really measure the current going through it, and thus the input power. The open connection can be connected through the air anywhere, and the current going through it in that way, cannot really be measured. I don't understand why yet another method that doesn't really measure overunity, while the method that i proposed does it more simply, straight-forwardly, and in principle correctly.

I think an explanation is in order regarding tightly coupled but isolated windings or coils.  There is a conducting path for the primary current (although it may not be obvious) and that is the distributed capacitance between the windings.  The pancake coils that TK demonstrated are physically wound and placed in proximity to one another such that the capacitance between the windings is probably in the area of several hundred picofarad.  This is considerable at his operating frequency of 1.4MHz and basically forms a series resonance circuit with the coil's inductance. 

Therefore, due to KCL, the current entering the circuit at the primary input with the open end is conducting thru the distributed capacitance to the secondary and can be measured accurately at the output thru the current sensing resistor.

As a side note, this type of circuit is a reactive power to real power converter and they are highly subject to potential measurement errors which is another subject altogether.

Regards,
Pm 

[ayeaye]

Therefore, due to KCL, the current entering the circuit at the primary input with the open end is conducting thru the distributed capacitance to the secondary and can be measured accurately at the output thru the current sensing resistor.

Yes yes, and the output is measured accurately on the resistor. But this doesn't address the question how can the input current be measured, that is all input current that goes through the output coil of the input power transformer.

[partzman]

Yes yes, and the output is measured accurately on the resistor. But this doesn't address the question how can the input current be measured, that is all input current that goes through the output coil of the input power transformer.

There are only two paths the input current can follow in this circuit.  One is from the secondary of the input transformer and the wiring to all other surrounding grounded objects through the air and two, through the distributed capacitance of the coupled pancake coils.  The distributed capacitance will be much greater than the parasitic capacitance to ground in most cases so one can be reasonably assured that the output current accurately represents the input current.   This can be demonstrated by comparing a calibrated current probe measurement of the input current to the current measured across the current sense resistor.   Any error is small and is not the major problem with these types of circuits.  The major measurement error comes from the fact that the reactive power level can be magnitudes greater than the measured input power which places a real burden on the accuracy of the phase between input voltage and current which then greatly affects the power input measurements.  This is so critical that you are now in the area of comparing probe de-skews, channel and probe offsets, probe capacitance and accuracy, and this would apply for analog or digital.

Regards,
Pm

[ayeaye]

There are only two paths the input current can follow in this circuit.

Yes whatever, but he measured only one path.

I don't know, i proposed something simple, simple circuit, moderate frequencies. But they say forget it and take this instead, megahertz frequency, everything flowing through the air, difficult to catch a thing. This may be a wonderful circuit and everything, all in its own way, though i don't know what really use it for. I don't say it's not a wonderful circuit and it may be all interesting, i just say that i don't think it's a good substitute, and i don't think that it's good for measuring overunity.

Do they think that my simple Python scripts are so overwhelmingly complicated, and it is much simpler when getting the waveform data directly from the oscilloscope. Learn some Python, very good to know for electronics too.

[ayeaye]

How to write graphs back to Inkscape, the svg file can be simple. The following is the svg file above written in a simple format. Such svg file can be easily written by Python, even a sample data can be written like a number of small rectangles. I didn't read any svg documentation, i did it only by experimenting.

<svg version="1.1"
    xmlns:xlink="http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink"
    xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg">
    <path d="m -150,-537.63782 7,10 10,7"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <path d="m -133,-498.63782 4,-8 4,-4 5,-3 5,-2 7,-1 28,-1"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <path d="m -150,-487.63782 4,-1 8,-1 5,0"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <path d="m -133,-489.63782 0,22"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <path d="m -154,-517.63782 78,0"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <path d="m -154,-467.63782 78,0"
        style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.1"/>
    <rect width="1" height="1" x="-154" y="-545"/>
    <rect width="1" height="1" x="-154" y="-460"/>
</svg>

I hope that i provided all you may need, feel free to ask if you have questions.