Bifilar pancake coil overunity experiment

[TinselKoala]

Carroll understands that _instantaneous_ multiplication of voltage times current is correct and remains true whatever the phase angle is between V and I. And that integration of the power waveform over time yields energy in Joules.


But you only have _one_ measurement, a voltage, not two. Are you saying that the measured voltage drop across the resistor (which is parallel to the inductor and remains so during the measurement) can be used for both V and I in the instantaneous multiplication?


Have you rebuilt and remeasured your circuit yet, so that we can interact to determine such things as proper settings of the baselines on your oscilloscope? Properly compensated probes? And etc.


Has anyone else been able to duplicate your OU results? Has anyone besides me even tried?

[ayeaye]

But you only have _one_ measurement, a voltage, not two. Are you saying that the measured voltage drop across the resistor (which is parallel to the inductor and remains so during the measurement) can be used for both V and I in the instantaneous multiplication?

I theoretically think that the voltage drop on the saturated transistor should be constant. So during the input part the voltage on R2 should be the power supply voltage, minus voltage on R3, minus the voltage drop on the saturated transistor. Which i chose to be 0.3 volts, as this is written on the c945 datasheet. And knowing that voltage, the current through R2 can be calculated. But i calculated it so only in the last code that i wrote, in my experiment i measured voltages both on R3 and R2.

F6FLT is trying using the copper tape coil, hope he writes the results.

This method is important, no matter whether overunity or not overunity, this is a general method to measure the energy efficiency of a coil.

PS The following is where one can try, like bc, online linux terminal. I tried copy and paste works, for pasting into it, right click the "Paste Here" below. I just did all the output calculation from above there. The trick is  cat > file  then paste, then press ctrl-z, creates file. then  cat file | less  views file end with q. > file  sends output to file,  < file  takes input from file. All there is to it. Hehe, there is even python.

https://bellard.org/jslinux/vm.html?url=https://bellard.org/jslinux/buildroot-x86.cfg

[TinselKoala]

Can you discuss how your "coil efficiency" measurement relates to the more commonly used coil quality factor called Q  which is the ratio of the inductive reactance to the resistance of the coil ? That is, it compares the energy reversibly stored in the coil, to the energy irretrievably lost to the system due to resistance, em radiation, etc.


I should think, at first guess, that an OU coil should have a very high Q at the frequency of interest.


https://www.radio-electronics.com/info/formulae/q-quality-factor/inductor-q.php

http://www.giangrandi.ch/electronics/ringdownq/ringdownq.shtml

[ayeaye]

Can you discuss how your "coil efficiency" measurement relates to the more commonly used coil quality factor called Q  which is the ratio of the inductive reactance to the resistance of the coil ?

The way that it does not describe everything. This experiment, and doing calculations from the oscilloscope results, just shows everything about the coil. No abstraction shows everything.

[TinselKoala]

The way that it does not describe everything. This experiment, and doing calculations from the oscilloscope results, just shows everything about the coil. No abstraction shows everything.

No, Q is not an "abstraction", any more than is inductive reactance. It is a well defined parameter of coils, and I've given you links to an introduction to the concept and also one of many different experimental means of MEASURING the Q of a coil. Your experiment does not show "everything" about the coil at all. Your measurement does not yield the coil's self-inductance, its distributed capacitance, its self-resonant frequency, its reactance at the test frequency, etc. I'm not sure it is even a valid measurement of anything.


Once again, I ask you to discuss Q as it pertains to your particular coil, and what to expect in terms of Q for a coil that returns more energy than it is pulsed with initially.