Finsrud perpetual motion machine

[grayone]

AnandAadhar; Thanks for the link, and the blowup of the machine. It is very interesting. I have not played with magnets, but Finsrud machine makes me want to try.

[TechStuf]

If any "chaos theory" is employed here, it is solely (as usual) for misdirection.  I see no need to employ "hidden chaos magnets" fixed with 'substandard resin' in the base of the machine.

I believe that the machine, operating on principles quite similar to celestial mechanics which govern, with high order, the movement of the planets in their orbits, requires no 'chaos' to contrast it's very orderly operation.  Most would agree that unlocking a door with a key is quite simple, provided the key and the lock are matched.  Much of our reality works the same way, elegant simplicity.....hidden only because lock and key do not agree.

Finsrud is clever to call it "art", for that is what helps mask the simplicity of the mechanism in the mind of the viewer.  The dynamics at work here are not complicated....the burden being the amount of persistence required to 'tweak' the device into operating within the required parameters.

Chaos is merely a tool, allowed temporary co-existence, which helps us learn to appreciate Order.  Once it has completed it's purpose, and Order is restored......who would long for chaos to return? 

The similarities between Finsrud's and Milkovic's system's are too obvious to ignore.  The relatively minor input force in both machines, should take place at the exact moment and time required for maximum amplification of leverage.  The slingshot effect provided by the horseshoe magnets provide the force needed by the steel spheres to amplify the pendulum's swing just enough to supply the breakaway force.

The dichotomy of Finsrud's and Milkovic's systems demonstrate the wide latitude allowable in 'force over time' intersections.

Finsrud surely spent a fair amount of time finding the right pendulum length/weight in order get that key of his to turn. Each swing period must be timed to the fraction of a second.  Nearing 1/100th I imagine.  The upper cylinder magnets likely serve as momentum dampeners, used to adjust momentum/timing of the spheres to keep from over accelarating and stay matched to the swing period of the pendulums....serving to highlight the energy surplus in the system.

The system is somewhat analogous to the "levitron" toy in that tight tolerancing is required to stay within the small envelope required for continual operation.

Had Finsrud the stomach/inclination for further research, I should think he could have stretched his 'envelope' much further by now.  Who knows, maybe he has?


TS

[AnandAadhar]

If any "chaos theory" is employed here, it is solely (as usual) for misdirection.  I see no need to employ "hidden chaos magnets" fixed with 'substandard resin' in the base of the machine.

I believe that the machine, operating on principles quite similar to celestial mechanics which govern, with high order, the movement of the planets in their orbits, requires no 'chaos' to contrast it's very orderly operation.  Most would agree that unlocking a door with a key is quite simple, provided the key and the lock are matched.  Much of our reality works the same way, elegant simplicity.....hidden only because lock and key do not agree.

Finsrud is clever to call it "art", for that is what helps mask the simplicity of the mechanism in the mind of the viewer.  The dynamics at work here are not complicated....the burden being the amount of persistence required to 'tweak' the device into operating within the required parameters.

Chaos is merely a tool, allowed temporary co-existence, which helps us learn to appreciate Order.  Once it has completed it's purpose, and Order is restored......who would long for chaos to return? 

The similarities between Finsrud's and Milkovic's system's are too obvious to ignore.  The relatively minor input force in both machines, should take place at the exact moment and time required for maximum amplification of leverage.  The slingshot effect provided by the horseshoe magnets provide the force needed by the steel spheres to amplify the pendulum's swing just enough to supply the breakaway force.

The dichotomy of Finsrud's and Milkovic's systems demonstrate the wide latitude allowable in 'force over time' intersections.

Finsrud surely spent a fair amount of time finding the right pendulum length/weight in order get that key of his to turn. Each swing period must be timed to the fraction of a second.  Nearing 1/100th I imagine.  The upper cylinder magnets likely serve as momentum dampeners, used to adjust momentum/timing of the spheres to keep from over accelarating and stay matched to the swing period of the pendulums....serving to highlight the energy surplus in the system.

The system is somewhat analogous to the "levitron" toy in that tight tolerancing is required to stay within the small envelope required for continual operation.

Had Finsrud the stomach/inclination for further research, I should think he could have stretched his 'envelope' much further by now.  Who knows, maybe he has?


TS

Whatever you say, Finsrud made his device with that chaos pendlum in the base. It is shown in his final blueprint for the machine.  So according him it is necessary. He's the maker. All we can do is try to understand this fact.

[TechStuf]

All we can do is try to understand this fact.

Or perhaps we can do more, like try and reconcile what we are witnessing as having anything to do with chaos.  The machine moves like clockwork, and while I can see the potential value in a central, hidden pendulum to possibly tilt the track slightly in a circular fashion....I fail to see the opportunity for chaotic motions to force couple to the machine in a positive manner, as such forces would have to be well timed, ie. highly ordered, and not truly chaotic, to be of real benefit.  In fact, in studying the device, I could not ascertain any form of chaotic interactions that could be of any benefit to the machine at all....and if there were, then such forces appear to be absolutely miniscule compared to the dynamics which are self evident.

Perhaps I'm entirely off base here. (wouldn't be the first time)  Experience, however, tells me that we are witnessing, in plain view, enough positive force interaction to power the machine, as evidenced by the employment of speed governors for the spheres.


Regards,


TS

[AnandAadhar]

The video of George Delk seems to confirm the Finsrud case of suggesting that magnetism with gravity can be caught in a dynamical relationship displaying the energy of time. I will try to replicate Delk's simplified Finsrud pendulum. if that works I will try to put it at work with my cakra rotor making IPMM number twelve. I hope we get out of this make-belief phase of non-replicable stuff that is possibly a Mylow kind of fake.

See my analysis of the Finsrud PM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q
The peswiki thread on this:
http://www.peswiki.com/index.php/OS:Perpetual_Magnetic_Pendulum_by_George_Delk
IPMM-thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4449.new.html#new
Finsrud overunity discussion:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=18.0;wap2
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=18.45
Delk Overunity thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=8568.msg221994#msg221994
George Delk Discussion group:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Delk_MP/
Delk's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZjNbjhxgt4