Newton's Magnets

[Floor]

                  ALSO

Thanks for the updates / videos Tinman

     @

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmbekUqJcs

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyfD1GiCXU

I think I see your design / intent,  good luck with it.

Note:  Undesired up and down forces (luc's force) will be high, especially with the leverage
factor present as the radius of the gears.

  floor

[Low-Q]

Refering your the first video:
When you let it go like a pendulum the first time, I can see that the rotormagnet is somewhat trapped in the statorfield, but not much. It has a lot to do with alignment, strength etc of the magnets - i guess. Big differenc when you remove one of the statormagnets. What force would you expect is required to remove one of the statormagnets when the rotormagnet is lined up with them? If it takes no force to do so, it would be easy for the momentum in the rotor to remove it a bit so the rotor can continue. However, the same momentum must force the statormagnet back towards a repelling force so the rotormagnet can enter the gap between them again.


Edit: In your second video, you made a 3D model of my "post-it" design (further up in this thread). I know from the FEMM simulation, that this design will not work.


Vidar

Chet posted my video in the other thread,but i will post it here as well,as this thread seems dedicated to the gating effect you have discovered Floor.

The first video is just a small test rig i threw together to see if there were any notable reaction forces--and none were found.

So i decided to put together a rotary design of mine,using Floors gate design.
The second video shows the 3D printed parts i have so far,but i decided to make the drum and gear 1 piece. Those new parts are on the printer ATM.

Anyway,you get the idea of what i am trying to do,and make the build easier.

It would seem, ATM anyway,that Floor's gate design may be what we have been looking for.
Keep up the good work Floor 

Sorry about the printer noise in the second video.
I didn't think it would be that loud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRmbekUqJcs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhyfD1GiCXU

[Floor]

Same principle of operation is in short video here @

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6xihh7

Same principles are at work but .... in the video, they are used via a different magnet
alignment / geometry.

https://overunity.com/18137/newtons-magnets/dlattach/attach/171711/

The design LowQ  has presented and the Tinman is modifying / testing, has similarities in principles.

I think there are meritorious aspects to the "Vidar design". I don't  think it will self loop, unless
the shielding is partially and cyclically removed then installed. 

It may be that there is sufficient energy in the rotary motion to supply that  install/ remove and still excess energy remaining.

I am confident the above is true of some of the linear designs.

It remains for the Tinman to demonstrate for us,  his rotary design as a go or no go.  I am of course hopeful that  the LowQ design or some variation of it will be a go.

     floor

[lumen]

@ Vidar


I built that same rotary design in your sketch about a year ago and it does not work for the same reason that all these designs cannot operate.
Ceramic magnets seem to deal with the problem better in that in a repelling position they only build pressure to a point then seem to yield to the pressure.


The problem is that the center magnet is not working as a shield but more as a field director.
The magnet pair that work in attraction become one larger magnet and push harder on the repelling magnet.
This effect is not felt on the center magnet which can freely move between the outer two but the force on the repelling outer is increased and the force on the attracting is decreased to near zero when measured from a stationary point.


So in the end what you have is the two outer magnets repel each other with 20oz force without the center magnet and with the center magnet one repels with 0oz force and the other with 40oz force.


Now if the ceramic magnet can only reach 20oz force before it gives in, then the increase does not occur and the operation shows a gain of 20oz force.
The simulations indicate this problem using neodymium magnets and actual tests indicate the same, but have not tried ceramic magnets.

[Floor]

First off, both Vidar and I (floor) have concluded that this particular rotary design will not just sit there and spin.

quotes are from Lumen


"I built that same rotary design in your sketch about a year ago "
                                       Show us evidence of that build, or don't claim it

"and it does not work for the same reason that all these designs cannot operate."
                                     Show us the evidence of your results or don't claim it.
                                                                     ALSO
                                       Please be specific as to what "these" designs are.

"Ceramic magnets seem to deal with the problem better in that in a repelling position they only build pressure to a point then seem to yield to the pressure."

                                        What problem ? Some problem is yours ?
                                           Then your statement becomes simply
                                                               gibberish.

Why do you use the first use of,  the word "seem" in the above paragraph.
                             Please don't reply.
What does the phrase "seem to yield" mean in this context ?
                             Please don't reply.

"The problem is that the center magnet is not working as a shield but more as a field director."
                                       This is not a problem it is a FEATURE.

"The magnet pair that work in attraction become one larger magnet and push harder on the repelling magnet. "
                                Unclear statement. Harder than what?
                                       And  I'll just say, no they don't


"This effect is not felt on the center magnet which can freely move between the outer two but the force on the repelling outer is increased and the force on the attracting is decreased to near zero when measured from a stationary point."

                                                Totally unclear statement.
                                                 Probably untrue as well ?

So in the end what you have is the two outer magnets repel each other with 20oz force without the center magnet and with the center magnet one repels with 0oz force and the other with 40oz force.

                                                 In what "end" ?
                                                           and
                     The inexpensive little ceramic magnets I have used exert
                            forces while at near  distances of hundred of grams. 

"Now if the ceramic magnet can only reach 20oz force before it gives in, then the increase does not                occur and the operation shows a gain of 20oz force.  The simulations indicate this problem using neodymium magnets and actual tests indicate the same, but have not tried ceramic magnets."
                                                          More B.S.


Finally, Ill say that, when at very close range (nearly touching) there are some domain re-orientations that occur in the ceramic type magnets I have used (real world not just simulations). 
These are accounted for in the demonstrations in the videos I have presented.  Their total effect is negligible in the total of the outcomes of the interactions.


Lumen dude, I don't feel like being nice about it this evening, Please just go away.
Please don't clutter the topic. Your input here was worse than useless.

    sorry
          floor