Allan's Transformer as a Generator

[AllanV]

Hi,
This could be off topic but the idea is that to make gains it is sometimes necessary to rehash some information.
Usually it is best to stand back and not get involved but over the years many individuals tend to follow others down the rabbit hole and come up with nothing. Most can't get simple things right and then they take on the impossible FE dream. (for them)

Over unity of 10 watts is easily achieved but from testing and experimenting a gain of at least 2000x is possible. The correct and most simple method is the challenge.

What can be done with 10watts?

The idea is to produce greater power in two circuits by separately generating a much increased flux in the core.
This will reduce turns and the devices footprint and require minimal circuitry. Set up cost is small.

The magnetism that links two separate circuits, an input and an output, is insignificantly small and so is the power to make it.
Some technical information on transformers reads that the flux in the core depends on the voltage applied to the windings, the frequency but not the current the transformer is delivering.

In a transformer - Pressure (voltage) and rate of change (frequency) produces the flux.

In a generator acting on one winding it is the rate of change and the strength of the field. There is a lot of opposition.

In a two winding situation it would be applying more AT in one winding in a 1/4 cycle and then more AT in the other in the next 1/4 cycle. This produces large currents which when increasing diminish magnetism and decreasing makes the flux. The flux is present with almost no current.

The transformer core is NOT involved in limiting the power delivered. Heat in the winding and voltage drop is the limiting factor.
This is written by technical people who make and build equipment but not necessarily FE advocates. 

A method has been developed to get more magnetism into the core with very little opposing voltage. From some testing and experimentation and understanding transformer action it is possible. Doing this does not involve the power in the input or output.

When a short or overload occurs on the secondary winding an installed fuse will blow, but not always. The huge increase in the magnetic field and the resulting voltage spike can damage equipment.
A transformer can have a gap up to 1mm with a strong magnetic field present is inefficient and produces less output.

The difference is the short produces magnetism that occurs from two currents slightly out of phase while flowing in opposite directions. The output current is lagging as a driven circuit, slightly more than usual. The extra flux produced is taking minimal power from the circuits. Also the output in a usual condition dampens the magnetic field, regulating and allowing more input current.

The transformer operates something like a car differential and the pinion movement indicates magnetism. If the wheels move together in the same direction the pinion spins and when they are opposite and equal the pinion is stationary. Anything in between, one wheel turning faster than it should at that moment in time will turn the pinion by some amount.

When two currents flow in the same direction they add together to make a large field and there is the most opposition and saturation can occur. By setting up the condition of a bias to produce more amp turns in one winding than the other as the currents go in opposite directions it is possible to use voltage to force more current to produce flux in the core. Therefore not by getting the currents more out of phase but rather using AT more magnetism is produced.

There is a tendency to overdo the amount required.

The problem that exists is that with a strong field very few heavy turns are required for power.  A resonant filter smooths the AC but at 50 hertz this is cumbersome with few turns.

[AllanV]

The following drawings show a simple layout

[onepower]

AllenV

Over unity of 10 watts is easily achieved but from testing and experimenting a gain of at least 2000x is possible. The correct and most simple method is the challenge. What can be done with 10watts?

Ah, a newcomer, welcome. Few here have a clue what your talking about but some do so it's cool.

The idea is to produce greater power in two circuits by separately generating a much increased flux in the core.
This will reduce turns and the devices footprint and require minimal circuitry. Set up cost is small.

It stands to reason that an increase in flux, the magnitude of the magnetic field change increases the power transferred between two circuit elements however we cannot create something from nothing only use what is present. Begging the question what is present?.   

The magnetism that links two separate circuits, an input and an output, is insignificantly small and so is the power to make it.
Some technical information on transformers reads that the flux in the core depends on the voltage applied to the windings, the frequency but not the current the transformer is delivering.

The magnetism that links the two circuits is normally proportional to only the current input which produces the magnetic field change which induces the secondary. This is true because the input voltage(electrical pressure) is what drives the current (the flow of electrons) which produces the field change. Frequency is simply a change in the flow of current dependent on the applied electrical pressure not something in itself but a result of something.

In a transformer - Pressure (voltage) and rate of change (frequency) produces the flux.

Yes, however it is the pressure (voltage or difference in potential) which causes a current (the flow of electrons) and both produce a change at a specific rate we call the frequency. The frequency does not produce a magnetic field or flux the current does due to the applied differential pressure or voltage.

In a generator acting on one winding it is the rate of change and the strength of the field. There is a lot of opposition.

Agreed, the opposition is Lenz Law and it is dependent on the "magnitude of change" encompassing both the rate and magnitude of change as both represent a change in something present. Here we should understand the totality of it, any change in any element effects every other thing thus there is a dependency in some respects.

In a two winding situation it would be applying more AT in one winding in a 1/4 cycle and then more AT in the other in the next 1/4 cycle. This produces large currents which when increasing diminish magnetism and decreasing makes the flux. The flux is present with almost no current.

Not normally, the magnetism is dependent on the current, which is dependent on the applied electrical pressure which produced the current. The cycle is simply a graphical or numerical representation of where the pressure and flow are dictating where the field strength is at any given moment. We must first understand cause to then understand effect. We should not be attributing virtues to an effect in itself without understanding the cause first and foremost.

The transformer core is NOT involved in limiting the power delivered. Heat in the winding and voltage drop is the limiting factor.
This is written by technical people who make and build equipment but not necessarily FE advocates.

Agreed, however do you know what really intrigued me?. I could not seem to understand the concept of a voltage drop. Why a drop, for what reason, what is the mechanism, why does it occur?. It was only when I understood why it dropped that I also began to understand the conditions in which is could rise. One of those Eureka moments...

A method has been developed to get more magnetism into the core with very little opposing voltage. From some testing and experimentation and understanding transformer action it is possible. Doing this does not involve the power in the input or output.

Agreed, it's not the input nor output but what happens in between the two.

When a short or overload occurs on the secondary winding an installed fuse will blow, but not always. The huge increase in the magnetic field and the resulting voltage spike can damage equipment.
A transformer can have a gap up to 1mm with a strong magnetic field present is inefficient and produces less output.

Agreed to some extent, the gap in the core or an open core which I prefer opens the field and can cause inefficiency. However by opening the field it also opens up other possibilities such as induction of multiple circuit elements. When we close the core we close the number of possibilities to induce other elements do we not?.

The difference is the short produces magnetism that occurs from two currents slightly out of phase while flowing in opposite directions. The output current is lagging as a driven circuit, slightly more than usual. The extra flux produced is taking minimal power from the circuits. Also the output in a usual condition dampens the magnetic field, regulating and allowing more input current.

Ah, the input/output field dilemma, been there done that. The best lesson I ever learned in this respect was from Faraday's lectures and we should understand the magnetic field is a product or result of something, it is finite. We input X energy and the result is X change as a field change. There is no getting around it otherwise were creating something from nothing which was never present. Pick your fight, the result is always after the fact and what your looking for is the cause.

The transformer operates something like a car differential and the pinion movement indicates magnetism. If the wheels move together in the same direction the pinion spins and when they are opposite and equal the pinion is stationary. Anything in between, one wheel turning faster than it should at that moment in time will turn the pinion by some amount.

Actually you have it backwards and I have rebuilt/fixed more than a few rear ends sometimes at 3am, at -25 C in the middle of a blizzard... long story. The pinion is the driver off the drive shaft which turns the ring gear, attached to the ring gear is the spider gears which only turn when there is a difference in rotation between the axles. So no Electro-Magnetism is nothing like a differential and that's a very bad analogy.

When two currents flow in the same direction they add together to make a large field and there is the most opposition and saturation can occur. By setting up the condition of a bias to produce more amp turns in one winding than the other as the currents go in opposite directions it is possible to use voltage to force more current to produce flux in the core. Therefore not by getting the currents more out of phase but rather using AT more magnetism is produced.

Hmm, agreed I think. Now your finally getting into the crux of this matter and I suspect most have no idea what your seeing. It generally starts as a discrepancy, looking at the the big picture and thinking this doesn't add up. You have this image of something but the pieces are fragmented and your not sure how they fit together yet. I'm not exactly sure why it happens in some people and not others. Some are always imagining the future and some are stuck in the past I suppose.

There is a tendency to overdo the amount required.
The problem that exists is that with a strong field very few heavy turns are required for power.  A resonant filter smooths the AC but at 50 hertz this is cumbersome with few turns.

So far as I can figure, some in the past did this with basically no turns and with great induced power. Which begs the question what kind of induction they were using, what is the true cause, to what end?. It would seem we have many questions and few answers.

Regards

[AllanV]

AllenV
Ah, a newcomer, welcome. Few here have a clue what your talking about but some do so it's cool.

It stands to reason that an increase in flux, the magnitude of the magnetic field change increases the power transferred between two circuit elements however we cannot create something from nothing only use what is present. Begging the question what is present?.   

The magnetism that links the two circuits is normally proportional to only the current input which produces the magnetic field change which induces the secondary. This is true because the input voltage(electrical pressure) is what drives the current (the flow of electrons) which produces the field change. Frequency is simply a change in the flow of current dependent on the applied electrical pressure not something in itself but a result of something.


Not normally, the magnetism is dependent on the current, which is dependent on the applied electrical pressure which produced the current. The cycle is simply a graphical or numerical representation of where the pressure and flow are dictating where the field strength is at any given moment. We must first understand cause to then understand effect. We should not be attributing virtues to an effect in itself without understanding the cause first and foremost.

Agreed, however do you know what really intrigued me?. I could not seem to understand the concept of a voltage drop. Why a drop, for what reason, what is the mechanism, why does it occur?. It was only when I understood why it dropped that I also began to understand the conditions in which is could rise. One of those Eureka moments...

Agreed, it's not the input nor output but what happens in between the two.

Ah, the input/output field dilemma, been there done that. The best lesson I ever learned in this respect was from Faraday's lectures and we should understand the magnetic field is a product or result of something, it is finite. We input X energy and the result is X change as a field change. There is no getting around it otherwise were creating something from nothing which was never present. Pick your fight, the result is always after the fact and what your looking for is the cause.

Actually you have it backwards and I have rebuilt/fixed more than a few rear ends sometimes at 3am, at -25 C in the middle of a blizzard... long story. The pinion is the driver off the drive shaft which turns the ring gear, attached to the ring gear is the spider gears which only turn when there is a difference in rotation between the axles. So no Electro-Magnetism is nothing like a differential and that's a very bad analogy.

Hmm, agreed I think. Now your finally getting into the crux of this matter and I suspect most have no idea what your seeing. It generally starts as a discrepancy, looking at the the big picture and thinking this doesn't add up. You have this image of something but the pieces are fragmented and your not sure how they fit together yet. I'm not exactly sure why it happens in some people and not others. Some are always imagining the future and some are stuck in the past I suppose.

So far as I can figure, some in the past did this with basically no turns and with great induced power. Which begs the question what kind of induction they were using, what is the true cause, to what end?. It would seem we have many questions and few answers.

Regards

Hi, thanks for the reply. 

Many go after free energy and if it is possible the best way to generate power is in a transformer action. The transformer is reasonably good and the larger devices can be up to 99% evidently. 1kw losses in 100Kw.

A diagram in a Motorola switch mode power supply book showed the set up to test for saturation. Through experimenting it was realized a transformer was operated just slightly above the residual field that exists with no current at all. When DC was alternated by hand on the primary winding of a transformer, the analogue meter pointer deflection on the secondary was good. If DC of the same direction was pulsed there was a very small deflection.
The transition by the residual field from one polarity to the other was the best for output and is how a transformer operates.

But the residual field is creating the opposition with the opposing current on top of it as well. Much more voltage and a much larger device is used than is actually necessary. The sine wave is a modulating effect and produces a tiny magnetic field that draws large currents, and this effect can be used in another way altogether.

Electric motors are the same. By modulating the magnetic flux they are designed to draw as much current as possible from a generator. Obviously this is so the power can be metered and billed.     

By testing an 80 watt transformer it was determined that only 0.9volt DC and 0.035A (80W/0.032W= 1/2500) was required to make the magnetic field.

The Motorola test showed that the actual saturation was occurring at such a low point on the graph to be almost nothing.

The question then was how to get passed the sticking point where magnetism will not exceed an amount determined by the core.

Why is it impossible to get magnetism into the core as fast as it collapses and is removed?

First: A gap or open core will help to break the residual field.

Second: Two winding currents interacting together can immediately strongly magnetize the core and as quickly as it is removed. 

Third: There is a sticking point that once passed allows all the current in one winding to appear directly as magnetism in the core. 

Four: There is a practical limit only. 

I think the differential analogy is very good. Just forget about it being in a vehicle. If a a couple of novices with a little intelligence, lifted the vehicles drive wheels off the ground, with a transformer winding drawing in front of them and some arrows, they should figure it out.

MY Quote
    In a two winding situation it would be applying more AT in one winding in a 1/4 cycle and then more AT in the other in the next 1/4 cycle. This produces large currents which when increasing diminish magnetism and decreasing makes the flux. The flux is present with almost no current.
End Quote

Your reply
"Not normally, the magnetism is dependent on the current, which is dependent on the applied electrical pressure which produced the current. The cycle is simply a graphical or numerical representation of where the pressure and flow are dictating where the field strength is at any given moment. We must first understand cause to then understand effect. We should not be attributing virtues to an effect in itself without understanding the cause first and foremost."

Reply
When current is maximum in a transformer there is no magnetism because there are two windings of equal and opposite AT and they cancel out. Some experimenting with an 80watt transformer shows that 1/2500th of the power is in the mag field. The small current needed is greatest at maximum voltage where for one tiny instant the currents add together before they both change direction for the next half cycle. Conditions change every quarter cycle.
By vectors magnetizing current makes a small to no difference on the power circuit.

The text books give the wrong impression and when younger I could pick up mistakes in them. The different authors were copying each other almost word for word. They were not doing or not understanding the experiments and it was theoretical only.

I appreciate your feed back. It focuses my thinking.

Thanks, regards,

Allan

[onepower]

AllenV

When current is maximum in a transformer there is no magnetism because there are two windings of equal and opposite AT and they cancel out. Some experimenting with an 80watt transformer shows that 1/2500th of the power is in the mag field. The small current needed is greatest at maximum voltage where for one tiny instant the currents add together before they both change direction for the next half cycle. Conditions change every quarter cycle.
By vectors magnetizing current makes a small to no difference on the power circuit.

When I studied transformer action I measured input/output current and voltage as well as internal/external magnetic and electric field strengths. All these variables were measured in real time then plotted graphically with engineering software called Labview. What was also neat was being able to plot all the actual field based rates of change to any other measure as they change at different rates. Which is how I know that when input current is maximum the magnetism is also maximum regardless of the number of turns or turns ratio.

Why is it impossible to get magnetism into the core as fast as it collapses and is removed?

That is a very good question most people wouldn't even know to ask however I did as well. The material is only 1% matter and 99% EM fields, so when we want to align the electron orbits producing a magnet we are acting against both the non-aligned electrons and the EM field they are immersed in. However on a field collapse the electron orbits don't have to move as far to become unaligned so it occurs faster. It's simply easier to create chaos than organization because the universe is inherently chaotic or dynamic on every level.

Understand when we say an electric current we mean electrons which carry a field moving in a conductor however when we say a magnetic field we mean something which interacts internal and external to the conductor. It interacts with the space it occupies and beyond it and many cannot wrap there mind around the concept that something is present in that space.

Which is why always working against nature is generally hard while working with it is easy. Which is also why we should never load the apparatus when generating a magnetic field only when allowing it to degenerate because the universe is acting with us not against us. It's just common sense isn't it?.

Regards