Stanley Meyer information

[pauldude000]

But spark gaps do not operate at frequencies of tens of kilohertz. They are quite inertial.
In this regard, I have a question, how can a water Marx generator work? 
Wesley once suggested that radioactive materials were used in the spark gap.
But really, I don't know...

You quote part of my post for these questions, specifically where I refer to pulse length of 50% duty cycle square wave frequencies in reference to time in microseconds. This has nothing to do with spark gap discharge which is inherently an AC phenomena, even considering lightning, so as such has nothing to do with a Stanley Meyer unit.


With that in mind, spark gaps are indeed capable of high frequency discharge though, as you would understand if you had built spark gap based primary circuits for Tesla style coils. In such units, a high voltage capacitor is inline with the primary air core coil, with a spark gap placed across the terminals. A high voltage input (DC or AC) is placed to charge the capacitor until the stored voltage overcomes the resistance of the air in the spark gap, then a high voltage electrical arc occurs through said gap. To someone expecting perfection, they would expect a smooth even transfer in only one direction until the charge on both sides of the  capacitor is equalized, however this is not the case. The electrical arc creates a plasma in the air gap, which conducts electricity quite well. The energy in this case surges from one plate of the capacitor back to the other for many cycles until the charge is equalized or until the conducting plasma "wire" is dispelled. This type of a system naturally produces a high frequency electrical oscillation. However, a simple two point spark gap is limited on the maximum frequency attainable. Tesla experimented with blowing currents of air through a spark gap to intentionally disperse the plasma, and rotating multiple gaps, but ultimately settled upon what is called a "quenched" spark gap (a gap with relatively large surface areas spaced closely together, basically an air capacitor designed to allow intentional breakdown). You can achieve high Khz to low Mhz range with such.


I am not currently familiar with the Marx Generator, or its proposed method of operation so cannot comment. One project at a time, lol. Is it related to Browns Gas or HHO devices or some such? You have to be careful when working on a project to kick such things to the curb until you have accomplished the current task, or you will find yourself inadvertently polluting your own project with hybridized notions about what is happening or how/why the inventor did something, which has a high probability of being incorrect. Straying off of the logical path is far too easy to do at the best of times.


Paul Andrulis

[kolbacict]

The energy in this case surges from one plate of the capacitor back to the other for many cycles until the charge is equalized or until the conducting plasma "wire" is dispelled.

Yes, but there are no coils in the Marx water generator.
As they are not in any other high-voltage Marx generator.
There is Tesla in the transformer, but not in Marx.
Therefore, it is not clear what will create high-frequency filling between discharges.

[pauldude000]

Yes, but there are no coils in the Marx water generator.
As they are not in any other high-voltage Marx generator.
There is Tesla in the transformer, but not in Marx.
Therefore, it is not clear what will create high-frequency filling between discharges.

Transformer + high frequency does not automatically equal tesla. There is no "tesla coil" in this device.


Paul Andrulis

[pauldude000]

so tried. So the dissociation of water does not work.
A much higher voltage is needed for dissociation.

Why then does electrolysis run on 3 volts, you ask? Oh no, this voltage is not between the plates.

The voltage is applied across a very thin gap less than a nanometer wide.

Therefore, more than 5 million volts per millimeter is actually needed for electrolysis in the volume of water.

In any case, even if you were able to apply 5 million volts to the electrolyzer plates and this voltage did not break anything. Will such dissociation be of low energy cost? The same electrolysis will be obtained as with a voltage of 3 volts.

I assume that Stanley Meyer said and wrote in the patents not what it really was. Not at all. Absolutely nothing about how it worked. Like many inventors, he did not aim to teach how to do it, but only to earn money for himself. Like any business around you. In this case, he could not tell any truth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-layer_capacitance

Voltage is cheap, and for that matter amperage is cheap, but watts are expensive (combination of the two). 1,000 volts at .001 amp = 1 watt, or .001 volts at 1,000 amps = 1 watt. The problem is that regular electrolysis is using AMPERAGE not voltage to break down the molecule. Saying 3v is meaningless, as it is the minimum voltage necessary to deliver the 10 to 15 amps being used, and the 30 - 45 watts for low output is horrendously expensive. It is literally using massive amounts of current to physically knock hydrogen atoms off of the water molecule by brute force.


Now, Stanley's device is based around a different principle, specifically a pulsed electric field placed between two plates, with water in between that stretches the molecule using ion attraction to an induced strong field, then rapidly slaps the molecule while it is stretched to break the covalent bonds. It is not just "pulling" the hydrogen atoms off using brute force but with voltage instead of amperage. If it were, then the system would be just as expensive as electrolysis.


A simple example of loading can be experienced with a pop can. If you press down, pre loading the structure, then press the side of the can it will rapidly crush with much less force needed than is you simply tried to crush it without pressing the side. The water molecule is a V shaped structure with somewhat moveable arms, The bonds tend to keep it in the V shape. Each Hydrogen atom is charged with one polarity, while the oxygen atom is of the other polarity. When immersed in an electric field it pulls both the hydrogen atoms in one direction, while pulling the oxygen atom in the other, thus putting physical stress on the molecule -- preloading the structure.


Paul Andrulis

[kolbacict]

pay attention to frequencies.
Where did Meyer get those frequencies from?