Permanent magnet assisted motor coil designs

[Thaelin]

  I can only think of one way that a pulse motor could have a fair amount of torque would be to stagger the coils behind each other a couple of degrees so as to apply the repulse before the preceding coil had a chance to finish.  Say maybe three sets around the rotor, but that could lead to a fair sized machine too. More power draw as they would be firing more often.
  Oh well, just musing a bit.
thay

[captainpecan]

Yeah, and that's kind of what I did with this one in a way. It's got 6 coils, fired in pairs. 8 magnets on the rotor. So it fires 24 times per rotation. It self starts fairly fast as well.
Maybe I was just expecting to much to soon. Maybe getting 39% out of a pulse motor is better than usual when measuring torque. I know a bedini school girl which I see as a huge success, has way less torque than this one. Maybe I found a design that pushed a little further could rival regular motors and still be a pulse motor. I wonder if efficiency would jump up quite a bit adding another layer of coils fired between the others.

[citfta]

Captainpecan,


I found a relatively easy way to compare efficiency of different tests.  This will not give you a true efficiency reading but will give you a quick and easy way to compare one setup with another.  You need to replace your pulley with a fan blade so as to give a load on your motor.  I think you have posted earlier that you had a tach.  I might be wrong on that.  But you need a tach.  I use one of the cheap laser tachs from China with a small piece of reflective tape on my rotor.


You measure the RPM of the rotor and then calculate the wattage used to get that speed.  Then divide the RPM by the wattage to get the RPM per watt.  As I wrote, you won't get an actual efficiency but as you change things you can easily see if your rpm went up or down per watt of input power.  Depending on the design of the fan blade the load may not be totally linear as the speed increases but that shouldn't really matter as we just want to compare RPM to wattage.


As a side note.  I did not want to input any negative ideas into your thread as I was hoping your results would be better than mine.  But I tried substituting a coil with some magnets inside it for my original coils on my pulse motor and the efficiency went down by quite a bit.  You have a great build there so you might want to try it with regular coils with cores and see what you get.  I used pieces of electric fence wire for my cores and also solid bolts and other things but the electric fence wire always gave me my best results.


I will continue to follow your's and Floodrod's threads as you are both doing some great research.


Take care,
Carroll

[gyulasun]

Hi Captainpecan, 

You surely have heard or know about the Muller motor.  An efficiency report by a serious replication attempt is shown here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYP2l3Y-NMg   and he details the measurements in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktCp7r7C_lY  He has several other videos on his Muller motor activities and here is his forum http://www.alt-nrg.org/Muller.html   

In floodrod's earlier thread I included two links on measured efficiency on a replicated zero force motor, see the details there: https://overunity.com/19091/quad-reciprocator-motor-idea/msg565965/#msg565965 

IMHO, to receive much better efficiency i.e. to increase output torque for pulse motors, the number of input coils would need to be increased so that the distance a rotor magnet should travel between two coils would be a few cm only. So the number of coil and magnet interactions (either attract or repel force) is added together AND this addition is repeated say 15 or 20 times within a full 360° turn of the rotor, then you can expect higher torque.  Whether this would eventually bring a COP > 1 performance I am not sure:  supposing such pulse motor would reach say 80% efficiency without capturing the flyback pulse energy, then dioing so there might be some success towards the goal.   

Gyula

[captainpecan]

Thanks for all the suggestions and info. I will try adding a a solid core in the middle of my coils and give that a shot as well to see the difference. I did those tests in the beginning before the build and the magnet in the core was way better performance. But now I'm starting to wonder what I may have missed. The concept of the inner magnet seems in my mind to be something to add to the performance. At the very least, I should get a bit of a generative spike as the field goes back inside the coil and cuts the turns of the wire as it collapses. But, reality and mental visualization doesn't always coincide. That's why we do this stuff. I've got tons more ideas I need to test. What I am really most interested is some ideas I have for the generator side of things and ways I may be able to work around lenz law a little for better generation. But I drifted down this path first, and probably many others before I ever get to the original idea I had. The fun never ends.