HHO projects

[assokin227]

I am interested because I am writing a monograph on HHO self-generating energy systems.  that develops some ideas.I have a website that I use to post monographs There are about 5 of them.
www.hho-research.org

In the one currently being written, I go back and examine the Oliver Valentin project. When first reading it, I noted that they got 400 watts output and their cells required 800 to 900 watts. So if this were scaled up to a unit with an output of 1 megawatt, would it need a 2 megawatt electrolysis plant (800/400 = 2) and an engine with a capacity of 3 megawatt? It looks rather bleak.  To deploy this system large scale, it would have to be cost competitive with other forms of renewable energy.

But it helps to look at it from a different perspective. What was the total amount of energy they got per gram of HHO hydrogen?  Assuming that the genset was about 15% efficient (and I did calculations on specs of what appeared to be a comparable product) then 85% of the energy produced was wasted. That works out to around 1.5 megajoules per gram of hydrogen.  The low heating value of hydrogen is 0.11996 megajoules per gram.  That is a factor of roughly 13, certainly over unity.

The same thing could be done with a more efficient engine, generator and maybe some sort energy recovery such as a microturbine attached to the exhaust that runs a generator that could power the electrolysis system. (The amount of energy that goes out through the exhaust is roughly equal to the amount of output energy produced by the engine.) The data produced by the Olive Valentin project seems rather approximate but based on the yeild value, a 1 megawatt unit might require an electrolyzer with a capacity of about 250 kilowatts.  Certainly significant but initial and maintenance costs are more likely to be manageable given the size of such a unit.

In another calculation,  I noticed that this yield value is much higher at very low concentrations of HHO.   On two different engine tests, it averaged a net yield of 6 megajoules per gram of hydrogen where the volumetric concentration was about 0.1%. 

In the Oliver Valentin project the concentration was about 5% and the yield was 1.5 MJ/gram. 

So what about all the concentrations in between? Maybe the yield effect is self inhibiting, so a plot of yield versus concentration might be a linear function.  Total energy produced would equal the product of the yield value and grams of hydrogen present.   

The total energy produced as a function of concentration would then be a quadratic equation. It would have maxima at around 2%.  The total concentration of hydrogen has to be above the combustability limit of 4% so that a reaction occurs when the spark goes off.  So we would need another 2% regular diatomic hydrogen to get us to 4%.

The total amount of energy at 2% HHO comes out 2.5 times greater than the amount at 4%.  So a 50/50 mixture of HHO and hydrogen may produce 2.5 times more energy than the same amount of HHO by itself.

I have a few other ideas.   I began an engine project a while back shown in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1DXtLrH1YU Also, I did this video early on in the pandemic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMkQn4rieLI&t=13s I have a company,  which is an actual Illinois LLC, www.almeo-research.comHowever,  I think development of a self-generating HHO energy system should be open source.

[stevie1001]

Nice, however.....
You should think on why you do not hear anything of these guys....
The title of their video is to think different.
That cell and their powersupply was basic stuff.
But the key question is what substance was in the bubler....

[Paul-R]

I am interested because I am writing a monograph on HHO self-generating energy systems.

Have you read Patrick's Chapter 10?
Now at
http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/indexOct2018.html
The Bob Boyce and Dave Lawton work is most interesting.

[assokin227]

Those are good questions.  I've been studying HHO gas injection, Diesel engine technology and related topics since 2008. A better question may be what's next?  If no one does it, how is it going to happen?

Rather than trying to get a self-generating system, just mapping the characteristics of the engine under highly controlled conditions would probably be more productive. The engine has to be run at a regulated speed and load. A small gas engine might be placed on a little engine dynamometer.  But what would perhaps be cheaper and more appropriate to this test would be to estimate what is called IMEP, indicated mean effective pressure, which would give the load on the engine.

A pressure sensor is installed in cylinder head of the engine.  A trigger disk is attached to the shaft of the engine and a variable reluctance sensor produces a clock which tracks the crank angle.  A computer device connected to these sensors plots out pressure vs. volume within the engine to get what's called an indicator diagram.  The area within the plot is integrated to get the IMEP value.  In a sense, it gives a view of what happens inside the cylinder. I actually put together such ah arrangement and latter, built electronics that recorded an indicator diagram. See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1DXtLrH1YU

This was done in my back yard, not the best place for more extensive research.   That would start with running the engine on hydrogen from a tank.  That would provide the classical baseline performance of this engine.  Then connecting an electrolytic HHO reactor.  HHO and bottled hydrogen might be used together at first. In any case, it would be an attempt to measure energy yield,  that is, the additional amount of energy produced per gram of HHO hydrogen injected. In this monograph found at  www.hho-research.org/wp12.pdf  ,  I develop this idea. 

It seems possible that multi megajoule  energy yields are possible.   In two different sets of tests,  the average yield value was 6 MJ/gram of HHO hydrogen. That is 50 times more than the low heating value of hydrogen ( 0.11996 MJ/gram )  the amount of energy that would be obtained from just burning the stuff.

The Oliver Valentin project would suggest that the reason for such a yield is a non-classical rationale and there are several other reasons suggesting that this actually makes sense. This project requires a more industrial space than my backyard,  such as, what is called a hackerspace having welding shop facilities, such as a place called Pumping Station One located at 3519 N Elston Ave, Chicago, IL.

I will finish the monograph, then maybe schedule a meet up to talk about the possibility of an open source project to explore the potential of using self-generated hydrogen/HHO as a self-contained energy source.

[ramset]

Sir
Thank you for sharing your efforts and thoughts ,
I am taking the initiative to forward this info to persons
I feel could assist you in this open source venture ,and comment here!


Respectfully
ChetKremens@gmail.com