Is this the first selfrunning overunity motor w/o batteries ? Mike?s motor

[Hoppy]

Megaman,

Look at post 2260 at the beginning of this thread and read the top line on the relay in the photo. It's an AC relay (36 - 530V) with a DC operating coil (4-32V DC).

However, now look at Mike's schematic and notice the diode in series with this relay between the SSR and FWBR. Why then do we need an AC relay when one cycle is blocked by this diode? A DC MOSFET based relay should work in theory.



Megaman wrote: -

"Hi Corona,
Mike used a DC solid state relay (I think are based on MOSFETs and an led), I suspect your solid state AC relay is probably made from two SCRs which only turn off when you cross the zero threshold.
There are a lot of cheap (chip type) DC ss relays you can buy that handle up to 500mA at 350V DC for about 2GBP.
Granted, these may not work as well as the heavy duty relay Mike used."

[CTG Labs]

Hi All,

Magnets arrived today!

-Just thoughts... I guess Mike just decided to build a window motor, but didnt know what turns or anything, so he just put something decent together with what he had.  Then once he got it running from a battery, he started playing with the control circuit and added some stuff.  Probably he just had this relay laying around (as its not made anymore), hooked it up and continued playing and got this effect.

Probably as long as the drive coil has a high resistance so as not to discharge the cap to quickly and you employ the same firing and coil connections, it will probably work.

What are the chances he just happened to wind the right no of turns, etc.  Its more likely as long as you follow the same procedure of the coils and timing, it will work!

Without Mike giving us exact dimensions and magnet field strength, etc, we have to just follow the general idea.

Mike has been bombarded with so many questions he cannot answer quick enough and now he has gone quite and whos fault is it?  Ours as usual.


Dave.

[corona]

I wouldn't be too concerned that he's gone quiet the last few hours some people do have other life they need to attend to. But I agree in that him being busy building his second, we should follow in what footsteps we can see and try building our own in the meantime.

speaking of building our own, mine is working fine as a motor (running on a power supply), except that it needs a high voltage to run. I've got it running on caps, but the caps are bing fed from a power supply through a resister. This way I can monitor the cap voltage to try to tune it. Except that there doesn't seem to be much I can change. ideally once I hit the sweet spot the cap voltage will start to rise, but it hasn't yet. my biggest concern is that if te cap voltage drops below around 12.8V the motor stops. This is far too high to be starting from to get it self running, as Mike's measurements showed that his coils give out ~4V when turned by hand, which means the motor must start fine from that voltage.

I think I'll have to find better wire to make a new coil. 
Since I had success earlier by adding more magnets, I added extra magnets again, but now it's got worse, it needs two coils in parallel to get it to drive again.

[barbosi]

Corona, Mike did use an additional wheel on the shaft to mount a magnet there for a hall ic.

Maybe the same number of magnets mounted on the mainshaft (6)

[MeggerMan]

Hi Corona and Hoppy,
Sorry for the slip up, yes I checked the spec again and yes the although the input is DC and starts at 4V the output requires AC and starts at 36Vrms.
According to the spec the relay does have two SCR's, but as I understand it they need to cross the zero potential to switch off.
Reading further looks as if once you drop the output below the hold voltage it will turn off, so does it mean the following happens:
1. hall effect trigger to turn on the relay, which coinsides with back emf.
2. pulse is collected at anything above 36volts.
3. As the pulse potential drops, output turns off at the hold voltage whatever that is.
4. the turn off from the hall IC is maybe ignored.

Hmm.... so does that mean the main coil needs a back emf of greater than 36V to feed the capacitor?
Maybe this is why it is only triggered once per rev. as more collections would create too much drag on the system.

So a standard solid state DC (in and out) relay may not do the trick and you need the same part.
Could this part be the *magic* that powers the overunity?

Dave,
The ss relay may no longer be manufactured but this part is available at Farnell in one for about 25GBP + vat
Just search for 84131100 on http://uk.farnell.com
I think its free postage over 20GBP.

Edited:
AhuraMazda mentioned the replacement part is 84137100, this has a lower AC output 24-280VAC, so this may perform better or worse, only time will tell.

Regards
Rob