Possible permanent magnet motor working in attraction mode

[edo]

Hi Nali2001, and others:

I say the following with the greatest of respect for you and the other wonderful people researching and exploring these areas.

Interesting design.  Attraction will occur in part of the Zone of Attraction due to the positive gradient of the magnetic field (potential).  There, the direction will be towards decreasing separation due to the gradient of the attraction.  This could cause net rotations as shown.

Radial attraction is assumed to be constant within the flux retaining plates (shields) except for the open area -- this should cause a net force sideways (along with a twist) on the central bearings -- yielding no net acceleration or deceleration from the plates' interaction.

However, please consider the effect of the negative gradient of attraction where and as the magnets emerge from the flux retaining shields.  Since I do not see a regauging possibility, I wonder how the net drag from the negative gradient will be offset by the positive acceleration of the positive gradient.

I would enjoy being wrong and seeing a working model spinning on its own with great gusto!

Cheers,
edo

[Nali2001]

Hi all, well I'm afraid this can't be modeled in FEMM because FEMM is 2d. And in this case, seen from above you have two magnets on top of each other for each 'magnet-pair'. Their interaction and ability to create a ?closed flux loop? under the retainer plate is important and since they are above eachother it can't be modeled with 2d FEMM?

True the device must be gear-connected for rotating in sync

The most attracted magnets will in fact have not much trouble going under the retainer plate, because: of the attraction to metal and the retainer provides a 'flux close loop' / 'path of least resistance'. So the magnet will prefer that above all.

There is a physics simulator standard in 3d studio called 'Reactor' But I don't believe it can model flux interaction.

Thanks for all your replies
Steven

[Low-Q]

Hi all, I need you all to think on this one here for me. Here is an interesting permanent magnet motor working in attraction mode.
What do you think? This is the most basic layout I guess. Also see the attached video.

Workable?

Thanks!
Steven

I believe it might be as "workable" as this design:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2029.0.html

However:
If you tune the steel rings length so there is an equal force that is pulling the magnets into closed loop in each end of the steel "ring", you have only the attraction force between the "open" magnets left in sum. You are sort of canceling out the sticky points by making two equal counter sticky points in each end of the steel ring. In my mind this might work!

Make one, so we can see.

I also agree with others here: Gear up both wheels so they are synchronized.

Br.

Vidar

[Nali2001]

Hi there Low-q.
Yeah I have seen that design before (looking good) but I do believe that the here presented design is superior.

If you tune the steel rings length so there is an equal force that is pulling the magnets into closed loop in each end of the steel "ring", you have only the attraction force between the "open" magnets left in sum. You are sort of canceling out the sticky points by making two equal counter sticky points in each end of the steel ring. In my mind this might work!

That is exactly the most important thing that could make this thing work.
Of course the sticky point will not be 100% equaled, but any cancelation is a gain.

Thanks!
Steven

[Low-Q]

What if we redesign the whole thing;
We use a fixed flat magnetbar instead of the second disc. No need for sync. between the two discs, as we remove one and replace it with a flat, fixed one - which sort of will make a mirror magnetic image of the one disk left. Any thoughts?

And I will probably believe it might work in repelling mode as well.

Vidar