High voltage HHO by IronHead

[Stonesthrow]

Question:  is using for electrolyte, sodium carbonate (ph-up for the pool) harmful?
Any Ampmeter recomendation?
I will also build a series cell version of this wallplates cell that I learned from this forum - thanks IH.
Also like to commend ZZF.
Brewmasters and Scubadivers know about the actions of gas and liquids under pressure.  The gas gets stored in the liquid until saturation(local).  Changes in pressure causes gases to go in and out of solution - bad for beer and blood.  I'm sure there are other factors but it seems to me that some hho would be stored in the electrolyte under pressure and released as the pressure dropped or the new saturation level is achieved.  What ya think?
Stone

[joemumu]

@Stonesthrow

Good point Stonesthrow, and welcome to the forum.

Your question of using Sodium Carbonate has been addressed in this forum before.  I have read responses from IronHead that the preferred catalyst is KOH which is Lye.

Very interesting what you say about gases in liquid under pressure.  This never occurred to me at the point of saturation.  It makes sense to me what you said.  Thinking that what you are saying is true, then perhaps gas production may stay at the same levels of production at atmospheric pressure, once the solution becomes saturated.  Is that what you are proposing?  This also must be happening at a reduced rate under 1 atmosphere of pressure.  Actually it may explain why ZFF did not get the results he expected to get with the cell under vacuum.  If this was the case the saturation point of the water under vacuum would be reduced to a certain amount directly related to the amount of vacuum which would release the gases sooner, but not increase the rate of production.  Am I correct in that assumption?

This also is related to the reason why scientists years ago couldn't explain why the accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere hadn't manifested itself earlier as they had predicted in their models.  As they later discovered they did not put into their models the fact that the oceans absorbed the CO2 until their saturation point.

If one would take this further, assuming that this proposal is indeed fact.  I remember ZFF trying the vacuum test after he demonstrated (with a vacuum gauge hooked up to the engine) how the engine in the car would produce less vacuum under acceleration.  His explanation was that it would be at this point that the car would need more HHO.  So if we look at the cell under pressure having stored a certain amount of HHO in the liquid, then at the moment of acceleration we could release the pressure, giving the motor a certain amount of stored HHO.  Then of course the cell would need to pressurize again, causing a lag in production of usable HHO.  It could be solved by having a second cell for cases like this.

ZFF, could you please give us your take on this?

@All

If anyone could validate this in their tests please let us know.  Speculation is fine, but tests prove by results.

Thank you

Alex

[Stonesthrow]

Pressure puts/keeps gases in solution.  Reduction of pressure causes gases to come out of solution. If the gas is in-solution it is unavailable right?

About engine vacuum.  It is created by the thottle plates being in the closed position (engine running).  Carburators need them to operate.  I'm not sure we need them when using fuel injectors.
high engine vacuum is created by the throttle body or throttle plates being closed. 
The solution is to "t" from the HHOcell to ports both infront and behind the throttle plates or throttlebody.  Use 2 checkvalves to isolate the two ports from each other.  What this does is balance the cell.  No need for special purpose cells.  The gas should arrive under all conditions with this configuration.  Where the best spot is would be the next consideration.
I really joined this forum because I am interested in some practical hi voltage efficient HHO gas production that I can use as fuel supplement and fuel.
got to go eat
stone
 

[Stonesthrow]

Hi All,
I am thinking in terms of appliance; 900watt room heaters, water heaters, BarBQues. 110 rectified volts to the cell.
I have a 300v 25amp bridge rectifier.  Could I connect it to the wall (15amp breaker) or should I use a isolation transformer?  I'd get 110v120hzDC.    My cell draws 28amps @36 volts 80'F.  So might I expect to pull 86 amps uncontrolled?  Probably need a current limiter of some kind.
Anyone see a problem here? Any guidance?  I hate to stumble in the dark(pun intended).
ABS Plastic is rated to 180'f and is more robust than pcv and has a better track record. And is available.  Anybody know what kind of plastic car radiator tanks are made out of these days?
Stone

[joemumu]

@Stonesthrow

Wonderful projects you have in mind for your cell(s). I also have thought of converting my forced air natural gas heater in my home to HHO or straight H.  That will take some looking into details later on as I have yet to build an experimental cell.  I would like to do it right away but finances are holding me back at the moment.  I'm sorry I couldn't suggest any solution to your electrical questions as I am not familiar with that.  I'm more on the mechanical side, but I do own a few CNC machines.  Would that count? lol 
I am trying to familiarize myself with different circuits, components and the jargon.  What I was wondering was in a burner system such as home heating or water heating what, (if anything), would need to be done with the burner?  Does the HHO or H present a problem as it burns faster and hoter than natural gas?  Would it cause any damage to the metal surfaces of these units?

I think you may have misunderstood my suggestion for HHO under pressure as it may relate to ZFF's tests.

Pressure puts/keeps gases in solution.  Reduction of pressure causes gases to come out of solution. If the gas is in-solution it is unavailable right?

Yes precisely my point.  When the gas boost is needed, releasing the pressure would release the stored HHO at that point becoming available.  You could expect a forced feeding effect depending on how quickly you allow the gas under pressure to escape the cell going into the intake.  The acceleration time would need to be balanced with the amount of HHO available from say 30 psi and the cell size taken into account

About engine vacuum.  It is created by the throttle plates being in the closed position (engine running).  Carburators need them to operate.  I'm not sure we need them when using fuel injectors.

I don't understand how an engine with fuel injectors would not be creating the same vacuum at the intake.  As far as my understanding there is no difference in the mechanics involved, except that the throttle plates are not needed when fuel injectors are used to deliver fuel.  There were fuel injectors used in a throttle body configuration, which would inject mist into the intake with one injector as opposed to the design where you have one injector per cylinder.  In the multiple injector design no throttle plate is used or needed as you say.  The engine in the multiple injector configuration does not require vacuum to draw the fuel mixture into the cylinder, the amount of fuel is increased by the computer, therefore displacing air.  The computor is mimicking, in a way, the effects of a throttle plate.  This is done at the cylinder when both valves are closed and the cylinder is in the compression stroke.  Both types, regardless, during intake strokes, create vacuum.  Maybe not used in identical ways, but still vacuum.

quote author=Stonesthrow link=topic=2057.msg66886#msg66886 date=1198982703]
No need for special purpose cells.  The gas should arrive under all conditions with this configuration.

There was concern by ZFF that the engine would not be drawing the fuel (HHO) into the cylinder, in the absence of sufficient vacuum, to accommodate acceleration.  The design I was mentioning would address that problem.  I was just thinking out loud that's all.

OK now I see your point that vacuum in a fuel injected car would stay constant by not having a throttle plate to restrict air intake.  True, to a certain extent.  As the computer increases the "on" time of the injector,  increasing the amount of fuel to the cylinder, you are then displacing air, causing the same end effect as reduced vacuum in a carburated engine.  I suppose you could computorize the cell to get the same effect or pressurize the cell.  What say you?

Thank you

Alex