High voltage HHO by IronHead

[keithturtle]

Thanks for the lead on that driver, IronHead... it'll run on my old comuter sitting in the closet.   I'll probably also be getting an Inductor / capacitor meter to better get a grip on the values of my various cells.  Got 90 volts worth of gell cells- run that through the mosfet, then to a torriod 100 to 1, then to a tank circuit on resonance, oughta get them volts into the upper atmosphere at least, no?

The electric turtle

[IronHead]

Great work alexleigh   A+

A computer is an option for the  30v buzz board it will also run stand alone
http://cgi.ebay.com/PC-Interface-PWM-Control-Hydrogen-motors-KIT_W0QQitemZ270127740540QQihZ017QQcategoryZ78190QQcmdZViewItem


This is one way to build a voltage multiplier .This is big volts but you get the idea.

http://members.tm.net/lapointe/Cockcroft_Walton.htm

[yikes]

Alexleigh, very nice.  It seems to me that all those bubbles are filling the solution because the surface tension is holding them in the solution.  By applying a vacuum the bubbles have an easier time getting out.  Because we should use a bubbler to prevent flashback problems, we have problems getting vacuum to the cell.  I am wondering if there might be other ways of breaking down the surface tension.

[kokomoj0]

Some Data:

This is pure hydrogen not HHO:

Hydrogen is the lightest of the elements with an atomic weight of 1.0. Liquid hydrogen has a density of 0.07 grams per cubic centimeter, whereas water has a density of 1.0 g/cc and gasoline about 0.75 g/cc. These facts give hydrogen both advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that it stores approximately 2.6 times the energy per unit mass as gasoline, and the disadvantage is that it needs about 4 times the volume for a given amount of energy. A 15 gallon automobile gasoline tank contains 90 pounds of gasoline. The corresponding hydrogen tank would be 60 gallons, but the hydrogen would weigh only 34 pounds.

    In terms of energy contained, 9.5 kg of hydrogen is equivalent to 25kg of gasoline ( Peschka 1987). Storing 25 kg of gasoline requires a tank with a mass of 17 kg, whereas the storage of 9.5 kg of hydrogen requires 55kg, (Peschka 1987). Part of the reason for this difference is that the volume of hydrogen fuel is about 4 times greater for the same energy content of gasoline. Although the hydrogen storage vessel is large, hydrogen burns 1.33 times more efficiently than gasoline in automobiles ( Bockris and Wass 1988). In tests a BMW 745h liquid-hydrogen test vehicle with a 75 kg tank and the energy equivalent of 40 liters of gasoline had a cruising range in traffic of 400 km, or a fuel efficiency of 10 km per liter ( Winter 1986).

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/hydrogen.html


So it sounds like hydrogen burns 1.33 times that of gas.

I think that is naturally aspirated engine using air which would have more nitrogen and reduce efficiency though.  HHO uses pure oxygen + a little more oxygen so it should be more efficient i would think.

[kokomoj0]

Next I found this one:

Hydrogen does have some more significant drawbacks. One of the most difficult to deal with is that it is such a light gas! A pound of Hydrogen contains around 61,000 Btus of latent energy in it, which seems like a lot! For comparison, a pound of regular gasoline only contains around 20,500 Btus in it! Sounds good!

However, a pound of Hydrogen is HUGE! At standard atmospheric pressure and temperature, it takes up around 190 cubic feet of space. In contrast, that pound of gasoline only takes up about 1/50 of a cubic foot.

Consider a mid-sized car, traveling at 60 mph down an Interstate Highway. It is well known (and easy to calculate) that roughly 40 actual horsepower is needed to maintain a constant speed. A horsepower is equal to 2544 Btu/hr, so we are talking about 102,000 Btu/hr of "actual" energy/work. For an hour's driving, we would therefore need 102,000 Btu of output energy. (A gasoline engine would use maybe 3 gallons of gasoline during that hour's driving (20 miles/gallon) which actually contained about 378,000 Btu of energy, but the engine/car efficiency is only around 25% to create the 102,000 Btu of output work.) Consider now that a cubic foot of Hydrogen (not compressed) only contains 319 Btu per cubic foot. That hour of driving would therefore require over 1,000 cubic feet of the Hydrogen.

We can say this same thing in terms of "gallons". A gallon of gasoline contains around 6 pounds, or 125,000 Btus of energy in it. A gallon of hydrogen (gas) only contains around 40 Btus in it. Quite a difference! Instead of a two cubic foot gasoline tank (15 gallons) in your car, you would need a tank more than 3,000 times bigger, over 6,000 cubic feet, for the equivalent Hydrogen! That's a little more than TWO standard semi trailers (8'wide x 8'high x 45' long or 2900 cubic feet each). Pretty big gas tank!

Well, that is obviously not going to happen! So, the many ongoing explorations into using Hydrogen as a fuel always involve carrying HIGHLY COMPRESSED Hydrogen in very thick, heavy tanks. If you have ever seen the kinds of tanks used for the Oxygen for a worker's oxyacetylene cutting torch, that's the kind. Such tanks can hold Hydrogen at around 100 times atmospheric pressure, or 1500 PSI, an extremely high pressure (or even higher).

http://mb-soft.com/public2/hydrogen.html


Ok they say that 380 cubic ft of hydrogen gas = 1 gallon of gas.

gas = 20,600btu/pound = 128000btu/gallon
hyd = 61,000btu/pound = 122000btu/380 cubic feet @ 0psig

if HHO is roughly 66% Hydrogen and 33% Oxygen then HHO = 570 cubic feet of HHO = 1 gallon of gasoline.

Then 570 * 28 = 16000 Liters

1 gallon of gas = 16000 Liters of HHO

For 20 MPG at 60 MPH = 3 gallons per hour = 48000 liters HHO

48000Liter/Hour / 60 minutes = 800 Liters per minute of total HHO gas required to drive 60 minutes at 60 MPH in a vehicle that gets 20 MPG of gas.

Per alex's data:
100 watts per liter per minute.
that was 300 watts to get 3 liters per minute

So 100 watts * 800 liters = 80KW to produce gas.

So 80,000/746watts per horsepower = 107 horsepower to create hydrogen to pull a 40 horsepower load.

Based on alex's data and without vacuum we would have about 1/3 th eoutput needed to tool down the road on oure hydrogen

i wonder how much the addition of vacuum and whatever IH has up his sleeve will add to the efficiency?

Do my numbers seem right to everyone?