Simple to make Hilden-Brand style motor

[nwman]

Please excuse my ignorance but I'm still a little stumped why a simple transformer idea wouldn't work? I don't see how Lenz law applies because if a simple DC transformer works at near 99% efficiency then why would a PM-transformer hybrid not work the same? The primary coil doesn't draw but a fraction more energy with the magnets on and the output coil should feel the magnetic fields of both the EM and the PM combined?

Tim

Also, side note without going too much into detail, I have replicated the valve and I do get a large increase in attraction force when both poles are in contact. However, there is relatively no attraction force just a small distance way. Its not until you actually connect the poles of the core does the PM field redirect.

[Nali2001]

Hi there Tim,
How is the project coming along?

Lenz always applies. Think about this: take a huge industrial generator which power a city. Now these things often have electro magnets as rotor 'magnets' (in other words no permanent magnets) Well, although the generator has an output of say 500megawatt, the excitation of the electro magnet which creates the magnetic field only requires maybe 200watt, the other 490megawatt is lenz. Same as a transformer. If you take a big microwave oven transformer and connect it to a variable dc power supply, you will see that at steady state 12v 10watt or so, is enough to totally saturate the core steel. But if 10watt causes a totally saturating field to occur, then why is it that these transformers in normal ac action can handle 1200watt? And also notice once you disconnect the load from the transformer it goes back to a maybe 8watt drawing state, connect the load and it is back up to 1200watt again. The thing is that lenz or Bemf is always there. When you change a magnetic field in an output coil, then that coil is going to put up and equally heavy resistive field. That is mainly what causes the effect of a 'load'. There are only very few devices which are to an extend 'lenz less' and reluctance motor are one of them.

I have yet to see an efficient dc transformer, dc to dc transformation is regarded as difficult and even the low power dc to dc chips are rarely above 85% efficient. And one can't jut pulse a transformer with dc and expect good power dc out, it will saturate in a sec. That is why ac exists the flipping of the fields is what enables good field changes and therefore efficient induction. In a dc transformer it is hard to get good field changes since you pulse it constantly with the same polarity. If the core does not go to a "zero magnetism state" on its own, in between the dc pulses, then there is no real field change and and so also no real power out. It can be done though but there are many things to keep in mind.

Plus things change when things are moving 'fast' in time. You might be able to switch these valves with 0.8 watt in dc at 5v. But doing the same thing now at 50hz you will see that, that same power in is now nothing. You will see that the time window of the 50hz causes the need for a big voltage increase as well as input power.

Keep me updated on your valve!

[broli]

The fact that lenz applies could be common sense. But I don't think it matters much. As long as you can prove you can get more out than in even if it was for a split second you made a huge ass step. What follows is then pure engineering in optimizing and scaling it.

[i_ron]

Hi all, I might have some interesting idea:
An (relatively) easy to realize Hildenbrand style permanent magnet assisted magnet motor.
You might know that next to all washing machines have a motor with a core that can be easily adapted for this use. I think the pictures talk for themselves but just in case I will explain it a bit:

snip

Congratulations Nali for starting this fantastic group. Already some great people on board!
Beautiful graphic work (as usual) Nali, my hats off...

I am interested in this concept also and would like to share what I have done... I tend to agree with Jack, the washing machine idea is not optimum.

I have taken a more conventional approach with a combination of Jack's work and Genesis...

http://www.genesis-corp.co.jp/e/e401.html

I have a small vid on youtube of an experiment...

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=kYcskBvSg6Q

I will post the explanation in a separate post, OK?

Ron

[i_ron]

snip
I will post the explanation in a separate post, OK?

Ron

Hildenbrand/Genesis Test # 3

I did the original test using cast iron as the core material.

I tried a test using laminations. This was not a conclusive test. I used a heavier gauge of wire and while it worked, the results were strange, in that while the magnet stack would lift 20 pounds the coil would lift upwards of 40 pounds. In lowering the voltage to 2.6 volts the coil would lift 20 pounds yet it was not switching the magnet when the two were combined with the result that the lift was minimal.

I therefore built a second cast iron model of slightly different construction. To establish a base line the magnet stack was tested without the coil…

magnet pic

The magnet stack consists of 6, 1/8th by 1 inch neo’s.
The shim is about .016 thou aluminum.

***********

Next the coil is tested without the magnet stack…

This is the original coil from test number one. .028 wire and 5.5 ohms resistance.

Shown lifting 20 pounds.

coil pic


Lastly the coil/magnet is shown lifting 75 pounds…. 80 pounds in the video…

coil plus magnet pic
Thus the two lift double their separate strengths.
The combined strength is thus four times that of a single coil.

RHP, 10/08