Successful TPU-ECD replication !

[threepointone]

There's one very, very, very, very important factor that seems to not have been taken into account in any of the measurements: power factor conversion. This factor is most prevalent when you're dealing with large inductive or capacitive loads, such as the coils you're using.

Ohm's law works fine when you're working with pure DC, but when you have AC, square waves, or whatnot, things get kind of funky. Current and voltage go out of phase; in other words, the average current might be 2A, and the average voltage might be 5V, but at the instant the current is 2A, there might be 0V, and at the instant there's 5V there's only 0A. In this case, the apparent power (which is what you calculate and measure using the resistor voltage drop / standard DC measurement techniques) would probably be around 10W, while the real power provided is much less. You pretty much have to add up V*I at every instant of time to get a good real average power reading. I suspect this may be what's happening in some of the videos documenting this "TPU". The best way I know of to measure real power from the AC mains is a device called the kill-a-watt; it'll measure the PFC and real watts for you. I'm not sure how you'd do it for lower voltage AC; you might have to design your own circuit to do it, or somehow interpose a current and voltage graph on an oscilloscope, ensuring they're perfectly in phase, and then calculating the power coming out at every instant (unfortunately not very easy or fun).

There's a entry on power factor conversion in wikipedia, and probably much more across the web. This is a very big area of concern for power supplies, UPSes, and electric companies; usually low PFC devices (those where apparent power > real power) are pretty nasty and pollute the power grid.

Also keep in mind that power <> energy. For example, you can charge a capacitor in 5s using 100W, and get out 500W in 1s without breaking conservation of energy.

good luck with all your endeavors!

[z_p_e]

Hi threepointone,

I am currently working on a document that will hopefully address this power measurement issue, and more.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention however.

Regards,
Darren

[z_p_e]

Hi guys,
If you look at the ECD doc the primary is wrapped around the secondary. But both windings are tied together at the cw input side so this will not make a step up.

GK,

I'm not sure which document you are referring to, but if it is Roberto's pdf, I can't agree with your statement that the primary is wrapped around the secondary.

The CC is bifilar for as long as the primary winding lasts. After that, the secondary continues wrapping over top of the primary/secondary bifilar. So if anything, your statement should be reversed.

In regards to the CC being a step-up transformer or not, it quite clearly is. Secondary windings and inductance is higher than that of the primary's.

Attached here is Figure 4 from an ignition coil patent #4,516,559. If you look at either the "otto_roberto_simplified01.pdf" or "otto_roberto_simplified02.pdf" files that I posted some time ago, you will see they are almost exactly like the patent figure below. I found this patent diagram only now for illustration purposes of this post.

If you agree that an ignition coil is a step-up transformer (which it is), then you must also agree that the CC is a step-up transformer as well.

Darren

[gn0stik]

Otto, a while ago, on dave's forums you siad that you could confirm that there were inertial effects, that it lost weight, and that there was a rotating field.

Can you please explain this a bit further, and what we must do in order to see these effects?

Regards,
Rich

Rich, i have asked him the same question more then once, you know.
He just ignores it.

M.

Roberto won't. I know otto is a "busy" guy. But Roberto is a very amenable and friendly person who understands the need to answer a question once in a while.

Perhaps you could field the question I asked roberto? Have you noticed any of the effects mentioned by Otto? or has he spoken to you about them?

I have heard him repeatedly talk about the rotation of field in particular, yet nobody has gotten a compass to spin. If the frequencies start too high, then it won't happen, but if he cannot see it that way, how does he determine he has a rotating field?

Second, how did he determine weight loss in the device? Or, if you have noticed it(have you?) How did you measure weight loss?

Third, have you or otto (yes or no) noticed the washboard effect, or inertial effects of the device?

Otto made claims to the effect on all of these effects, yet spoke no further on it.. I have been dying to know more ever since. These are important clues, and need to be understood.

Please let me know all you can on these points. Also know that these questions are coming from a believer. Not an outright skeptic.

we need open communication or this whole thing falls apart. That is what I'm trying to prevent.

I think answering these questions will renew a level of excitement and enthusiasm.

I also think, dropping those claims out there and saying nothing further on it, was a bit torturous to us. Especially the believers.

I originally thought it was because otto thought once we built it we would see them, but nobody has to my knowlege. I know cam tested for the rotating field, but I don't think anyone tested for weight loss. And since we can't really touch the device in operation, I don't think folks have seen the inertia, or washboard effect either.

Thank you, Rich

[Hoppy]

There's one very, very, very, very important factor that seems to not have been taken into account in any of the measurements: power factor conversion. This factor is most prevalent when you're dealing with large inductive or capacitive loads, such as the coils you're using.

Ohm's law works fine when you're working with pure DC, but when you have AC, square waves, or whatnot, things get kind of funky. Current and voltage go out of phase; in other words, the average current might be 2A, and the average voltage might be 5V, but at the instant the current is 2A, there might be 0V, and at the instant there's 5V there's only 0A. In this case, the apparent power (which is what you calculate and measure using the resistor voltage drop / standard DC measurement techniques) would probably be around 10W, while the real power provided is much less. You pretty much have to add up V*I at every instant of time to get a good real average power reading. I suspect this may be what's happening in some of the videos documenting this "TPU". The best way I know of to measure real power from the AC mains is a device called the kill-a-watt; it'll measure the PFC and real watts for you. I'm not sure how you'd do it for lower voltage AC; you might have to design your own circuit to do it, or somehow interpose a current and voltage graph on an oscilloscope, ensuring they're perfectly in phase, and then calculating the power coming out at every instant (unfortunately not very easy or fun).

There's a entry on power factor conversion in wikipedia, and probably much more across the web. This is a very big area of concern for power supplies, UPSes, and electric companies; usually low PFC devices (those where apparent power > real power) are pretty nasty and pollute the power grid.

Also keep in mind that power <> energy. For example, you can charge a capacitor in 5s using 100W, and get out 500W in 1s without breaking conservation of energy.

good luck with all your endeavors!

This issue has been raised many times on these threads and needs repeating from time to time.

To my knowledge Otto and Roberto have not yet reported their current measurements using filters with a battery as a power supply. Using a small Killowatt meter to take a mains power reading would be a useful bit of data. These are currently available in the UK from some DIY stores and are very innexpensive and probably available in other countries.

Clive