The Lee-Tseung Lead Out Theory

[Top Gun]

No my friend. That is where the problem is!! Simple mechanics tell me any sort of force applied to pendulum may be Horizontal or tangential, is going to "Split" in to horizontal and vertical component in order to move it in radial movement. Vertical component is going to do vertical work of over coming gravity and interia and horizontal component is going to do the horizontal work!! I know gravity is a "restoring" force on pendulum that will always push it downwards and in order to overcome this, I need an "external" force to move it upwards.

I am having too much trouble in understanding how your horizontal force in only doing horizontal work and still giving pendulum a vertical work against gravity, in other words how come its not splitting and still giving a radial motion. The moment you apply the force, a centripetal force is what moves pendulum in radial direction.

So the assumption you have that "EXTERNAL FORCE IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT" is where all the trouble is! Because you have no theory to prove it. Please show me mathematical proof of external force not splitting to do vertical and horizontal work in a radial motion.

If you keep repeating that, no, my external force is not going to split and it is going to induce lead out energy, the term no body seems to understand, then my friend your and mine mechanics itself is different! Tell me why the external force is not splitting into two components when the motion caused by it is circular.

Mr. Tseung, many people will show you that your above said assumption is incorrect! If you want I can write a complete system in terms of rotational inertia, rotational forces i.e. in terms of mechanics. But if you are not ready to accept that your applied horizontal force is splitting, then it means you are challenging the existing mechanics only. You are getting that additional unit of lead out energy because you are considering your applied horizontal force is doing horizontal work only. In my opinion, it is impossible if it is a rotational motion.

Dear Kul_ash,

I really enjoy this juicy technical discussion.  You are a worthy challenger.

Your first statement states that Simple mechanics tell me any sort of force applied to a pendulum may be Horizontal or tangential (*or any direction), is going to "Split" into horizontal and vertical component

This statement should be improved to any sort of force applied to a pendulum may also cause the existing forces to split into a horizontal and a vertical component.

One of the existing forces in the pendulum is the tension of the string.  The application of an external force may change its magnitude and direction.  Mechanics tells us that we should considering the splitting of this force as well.  I know that this is not normally taught in standard Physics classes.  But my improvement to the standard mechanics application does not violate any Physics Laws.  Simple experiments such as that in pendulum08a.jpg easily confirms that the tension of the string increases and its direction changes.

You can split externally applied forces.  Why can?t you split existing but changed forces???

[Kul_ash]

No my friend. That is where the problem is!! Simple mechanics tell me any sort of force applied to pendulum may be Horizontal or tangential, is going to "Split" in to horizontal and vertical component in order to move it in radial movement. Vertical component is going to do vertical work of over coming gravity and interia and horizontal component is going to do the horizontal work!! I know gravity is a "restoring" force on pendulum that will always push it downwards and in order to overcome this, I need an "external" force to move it upwards.

I am having too much trouble in understanding how your horizontal force in only doing horizontal work and still giving pendulum a vertical work against gravity, in other words how come its not splitting and still giving a radial motion. The moment you apply the force, a centripetal force is what moves pendulum in radial direction.

So the assumption you have that "EXTERNAL FORCE IS NOT GOING TO SPLIT" is where all the trouble is! Because you have no theory to prove it. Please show me mathematical proof of external force not splitting to do vertical and horizontal work in a radial motion.

If you keep repeating that, no, my external force is not going to split and it is going to induce lead out energy, the term no body seems to understand, then my friend your and mine mechanics itself is different! Tell me why the external force is not splitting into two components when the motion caused by it is circular.

Mr. Tseung, many people will show you that your above said assumption is incorrect! If you want I can write a complete system in terms of rotational inertia, rotational forces i.e. in terms of mechanics. But if you are not ready to accept that your applied horizontal force is splitting, then it means you are challenging the existing mechanics only. You are getting that additional unit of lead out energy because you are considering your applied horizontal force is doing horizontal work only. In my opinion, it is impossible if it is a rotational motion.

Dear Kul_ash,

I really enjoy this juicy technical discussion.  You are a worthy challenger.

Your first statement states that Simple mechanics tell me any sort of force applied to a pendulum may be Horizontal or tangential (*or any direction), is going to "Split" into horizontal and vertical component

This statement should be improved to any sort of force applied to a pendulum may also cause the existing forces to split into a horizontal and a vertical component.

One of the existing forces in the pendulum is the tension of the string.  The application of an external force may change its magnitude and direction.  Mechanics tells us that we should considering the splitting of this force as well.  I know that this is not normally taught in standard Physics classes.  But my improvement to the standard mechanics application does not violate any Physics Laws.  Simple experiments such as that in pendulum08a.jpg easily confirms that the tension of the string increases and its direction changes.

You can split externally applied forces.  Why can?t you split existing but changed forces???

The application of an external force may change its magnitude and direction

You said it now! The change in their force is ONLY BECAUSE OF APPLICATION OF EXERNAL FORCE. If some part of applied force is going in changing the tension in the string, then remaining part only will go to move it horizontally!
The induced change in already existing internal forces is called as restoring force. The work is always done by external force and not by internal forces in the system.
In you case, you are denying that horizontal force is rsponsible for change in the tension of the string and you are claiming that it is "lead out gravity" which is doing that. By all means, this is not acceptable to me and now you said it yourself. In other words, you supply energy externally and it does the required work and that is the law of conservation of energy. You are claiming that this energy is coming "from outside" the system. How, that is you are trying to prove it based on incorrect assumptions..
If I go in details, I can show you the extact rotational mechanics of the system after applied torque. There is no way a reguar mechanics will allow you to "induce" outside energy in to system.

[Kul_ash]

And Mr. top gun, the simple fact is if you are experincing a new phenomenon, then it has to be validated by numerous experimental values. Then the existing theory is adjusted accordingly. You can not prove something new from from something old that does not account for this new change.
That is why all the inspectors asked you to show the induction of this "lead out gravity" as no known theory knows about it. You showing it with existing mechanics is never going to work and that is a simple logic.
What you have to do is simple. Run this pendulum with your style, produce varifiable results. Show without doubt that there is indeed an extra energy lead out by gravity. People will accept it and change the existing theory accordingly. The mistake you are making is that you are trying to prove it without the basis of experiments and actual values and you are trying to misuse existing system. What will happen is that you will reduce yourself to acedemic discussions with some amatures like me and real people won't even look at it!
Think about it.

[chrisC]

And Mr. top gun, the simple fact is if you are experincing a new phenomenon, then it has to be validated by numerous experimental values. Then the existing theory is adjusted accordingly. You can not prove something new from from something old that does not account for this new change.
That is why all the inspectors asked you to show the induction of this "lead out gravity" as no known theory knows about it. You showing it with existing mechanics is never going to work and that is a simple logic.
What you have to do is simple. Run this pendulum with your style, produce varifiable results. Show without doubt that there is indeed an extra energy lead out by gravity. People will accept it and change the existing theory accordingly. The mistake you are making is that you are trying to prove it without the basis of experiments and actual values and you are trying to misuse existing system. What will happen is that you will reduce yourself to acedemic discussions with some amatures like me and real people won't even look at it!
Think about it.

@Kul_ash

Why do you think most members on this thread consider Mr. Tseung as delusional? Seriously. A sensible person who claimed to be "Top Gun" cannot possibly think their statement is Gospel! It needs scientific proofs. We'll whatever Tseung claims is hot air until scientifically proven. That's why we have 2000 plus posts of circular arguments.

cheers
chrisC

[Kul_ash]

And Mr. top gun, the simple fact is if you are experincing a new phenomenon, then it has to be validated by numerous experimental values. Then the existing theory is adjusted accordingly. You can not prove something new from from something old that does not account for this new change.
That is why all the inspectors asked you to show the induction of this "lead out gravity" as no known theory knows about it. You showing it with existing mechanics is never going to work and that is a simple logic.
What you have to do is simple. Run this pendulum with your style, produce varifiable results. Show without doubt that there is indeed an extra energy lead out by gravity. People will accept it and change the existing theory accordingly. The mistake you are making is that you are trying to prove it without the basis of experiments and actual values and you are trying to misuse existing system. What will happen is that you will reduce yourself to acedemic discussions with some amatures like me and real people won't even look at it!
Think about it.

@Kul_ash

Why do you think most members on this thread consider Mr. Tseung as delusional? Seriously. A sensible person who claimed to be "Top Gun" cannot possibly think their statement is Gospel! It needs scientific proofs. We'll whatever Tseung claims is hot air until scientifically proven. That's why we have 2000 plus posts of circular arguments.

cheers
chrisC

I am hoping to get USD 1300