Yet another Free energy Awnser...But a really good one ;)

[armagdn03]

If I understand you correctly, you believe there to be some sort of drag that will appear in the c stack motor. I was afraid of this, afteral electrons do have mass, and it takes energy to move any mass. (not that I wont test for myself ) But since the solid state version with the RLC circuit is essentially the same thing as the C stack motor, this "drag" must appear somewhere in the circuit. Where do you see this loss occuring in the solid state version?

Also, note that this motor is not affected by lenz law, and many of its shortcumings. I would be interested to see what kind of powerloss is seen from use of the energy taken from the inner plates (if any at all, to be tested) and if it is more or less than what is experianced by traditional motors affected by ol lenz.

[tinu]

?I believe what is happening is that before the inner plates are shorted, we have 1 capacitor setup at a particular voltage. When we short the inner plates, we have another setup where the particular voltage drops, and teh capacitance increases hence your amperage readings from your nine volt. but I do not believe that the voltage will continue to drop over and over again as you repeat the process or that would mean a transfer of electrons between the inner and outer plates, which I believe to be imposible.?

This is the part I suppose you have to dig deeper for a better understanding.
The ?short? above is not as any regular short. That is, before shorting, the inner capacitor is empty of charge. After the ?short?, it becomes charged. So, this short is somehow the opposite of what one has in mind, as it is allowing the inner capacitor to charge up to a given (&calculable) voltage.

Things get even more confusing further on because although the inner capacitor is charged after the above ?short?, you can not measure its voltage with a voltmeter because it will show zero Volts. That?s because the E filed of the inner plates exactly opposes and cancels the E field of the outer plates, hence they nullify. In order to see that after (actually during) the short the inner plates really charged, you have to discharge the outer plates and only after that will you be able to measure with a voltmeter the voltage left on the inner plates.

You are absolutely right on the last part: the transfer of electrons between the inner and outer plates does not take place at all, no matter what circumstances. That?s simply because there is now electrical path (considering that the dielectric is good enough) for such a transfer to take place. Any depart from this approach is something one has to completely remove from his thinking as it would be erroneous. As long as one does not modify the setup to cross-connect an inner plate with an outer plate, the only two possible ways for transfer of charge are (a) between the outer plates (through the power supply) and (b) between the inner plates (through the shorting line, voltmeter or load). 
Consequently, the voltage drops once (at ?short?) and that?s it. Another ?short? (apart for the fact that is not making much logical sense, isn?t is? ?thus making it a joke) does nothing.
But try to better define the action you call ?repeat the process?. This is the way toward understanding ac setup. However, in dc approach there is more than one way to ?repeat the process?. For example, you can or can not discharge the inner capacitor before charging again the outer one. This simple choice allows for two paths. Then, after discharging the inner capacitor if you choose to do so, you?ll find that the outer one has apparently inexplicable gain a small voltage. Will you choose to discharge it again or not? See, thing are getting iterative and quite complex?



?I dont see how voltage can just dissapear, unless the total energy is concerved, yet the voltage simply doesnt seem to manifest itself.?

This part is not clear to me but I suspect you made a slight logic error. Primarily, the charge (not energy) is conserved, as long as the dielectric between the plates is good enough. The total energy is supposed to be conserved but part of it is flowing in between the outer and inner capacitor, depending on the particular setup you might consider. For instance, when ?shorting? the inner capacitor, some energy is transferred to the inner plates. Also, in the process some energy is lost (in practice) due to the joule heat in the small (but not zero) electric resistance of the shorting wire. Or, if you prefer, replace the short with a load and the load will be powered. In this case I hope it is clear for you that some energy is transferred from the outer capacitor to the inner one and there is another part of energy that is extracted outside of the setup.


?If I understand you correctly, you believe there to be some sort of drag that will appear in the c stack motor. I was afraid of this, afteral electrons do have mass, and it takes energy to move any mass. (not that I wont test for myself  ) But since the solid state version with the RLC circuit is essentially the same thing as the C stack motor, this "drag" must appear somewhere in the circuit. Where do you see this loss occuring in the solid state version??

The drag is not due to accelerating mass but due to the fact that you move charges existing on the inner plates against the electric field of the outer plates. It?s plain Coulomb-type interaction.
The solid state can not possibly show any kind of mechanical drag, of course, but it will fall under the explanations previously given.


I will leave you for now to struggle with the questions you might have inside. That?s it not because I do not want to help but because: 1.I?m quite busy these days and 2. you have to go through some logic contradictions, before clearly seeing the whole picture. That?s the way it is. It took me the same effort and struggle.

If it?s something helpful along the way, that is: all the answers you might need are already provided in the posts above.

Tinu

[armagdn03]

I guess its time to put my money where my mouth is so to speak, and do some testing!

I will keep a log of results, formulas to fit, and interpretations (Something I think more people should do! its good to see actual numbers for results in a well put together manor so that we can all learn from what you have done! I would also encurage people to post resutls of failed projects! this is very valuble info as well!!!)

[armagdn03]

 

[tinu]

The readings from the multi meter show 14.02 volts. The Amperage shows 13.1ua, this low amperage is to be expected because there is no electron flow between the outer plates. NOW, using diodes (one a light emiting diode for my viewing pleasure) just as described above to create a much needed electron path, I rectified the ac signal induced by the outer plates to get a dc signal on the inner plates. The readings on the inner plates are as follows. Voltage = 9.22, Amperage = 114.7ua

YOU DO THE MATH!!!!

Voltage and amperage measured at the same time?
Or the voltage is that of an open circuit and the amperage is measured in short? I suspect this is the case, because the amperage through a voltmeter would be directly proportional with the voltage, which is clearly not the case.

In order to do the math, both values have to be measured simultaneous.
Please detail.

Tx,
Tinu