Marcus Reid crystal battery simular to Hutchinson cell !

[Walter Hofmann]

hi all,
I just wana give a few of my experience with my AG watercells,
the cells give a much higher and longer output if they are put on a short circuit ammeter for about 5 to 10 second three times, I found out it works like a priming or formating,
My AG cells are runing through a kind of cycle what means under load they run down to about 65% of the startup voltage then they stay there for about 12 to 36 hours still under load and then start slowly increase in voltage up to 75 to 80% then the hole process starts again. One of this cycle takes about 160 hours.all this under load
Like stefan allready explained the cells should not be to wet but they also should not totally dry out if they are dry for a longer period they need to be formated or primed again for a longer period and the voltage allways whould be max up to 85%.
In regards to marcus reid crystal battery and also hutchinson's cell like marcus have shown and explained he did get allready a low voltage by contacting the found calcit what is not allways the case I try this with several and did get a similar only with one and I believe that it has to do with impurities.
greetings
walt

[hartiberlin]

From: koen
Date: Thu Jun 2, 2005  6:23 pm
Subject: Re: [ou-builders] Re: molten calcite, glass and electrets  koen_langeveld


Stefan,

thanks for the info, I hope you'll manage to find
some contact details on Marcus.

I'm afraid I have not been following the research into
those 'watercells' very closely, but I seem to remember
that they stopped working when they dried out completely...
Or am I wrong here?

I was thinking of using a fairly long piece of metal pipe,
either steel or copper, as one electrode. This, I think,
would provide a nice large suface area. I could brush,
sand or otherwise roughen up the inside surface of it,
before the calcite mixture is poured in. And a graphite rod
could be the other electrode, although I originally had
a steel rod in mind... But I guess the graphite is necessary
in the water cells? Perhaps also in Reids device...?
If the overall effect depends more on the reaction surface
size then on the amount of calcite mix, I might try to use
two pipes, one inside the other, to provide for a greater
reation surface on both electrodes... However, it would
be harder to find a graphite pipe... Unless I can find
a carbonfiber pipe somewhere...

Do you suppose simply adding water to turn it into a paste
would work? It wouldn't really form terribly nice crystals
with calcite though, since only very little calcite dissolves
into a liter of water... It's worth a shot, though, since lime-
stone (=calcite) is formed by a calcite solution which deposits
the calcite over long periods of time, and of course it's very
easy to just ass water to chalk and heat it untill the water
has evaporated... If that doesn't work, then the chalk can
always be recycled for another experiment...
The question is, what did Reid use for liquid addition?

I know that amix of silicon, 'burnt chalk', and water, when
heated turns into a solid mass, sometimes referred to as a
'geopolymer' or 'artificial rock'. This reaction of course involves
SiO2, CaO and H2O.
It is well possible that Hutchinson simply changed the mix a little,
added a little C and/or replaced the H2O with H2O2,
which results in a calcite with embedded silicon...
Or even plain chalk and silicon with hydrogenperoxide would result in
that...
The idea of the H2O2 being, in that case, to keep the CaCO3 from
breaking down into a different compound...
But that is really all speculation at this point...

But tell me, in these water cells, after the water has slowly
evaporated
and crystals of these salts have formed on the metal, and the entire
thing is dry, does it still produce an electrical output?
If that's the case, a few fairly simple experiments with salts might
be
interesting to do as well... Perhaps mixing salt in with the calcite...
Very interesting...

Kind regards,
Koen

[hartiberlin]

--- In ou-builders@yahoogroups.com, koennummer1@p... wrote:
> Hi Stefan,
>
> interesting experiment...
> Maybe I should try it sometime...
>
> As for the Reid calcite device, it's quite clear he used a metal
> tube and a metal rod as electrodes... I wonder if replacing
> the rod with a graphite rod would make a difference there...

He has aluminium pipe at the outside and probably brass
or copper at the inner electrode.
So there must be used dissimular metals to
get a high voltage difference.

Also it would be best to use AZ61( magnesium-alloy) and graphite for the
best dissimular metall combination.

It could be, that this is just an atomic battery and
he happened to have the right CaCO3 with small radioactive impurities
so the battery works just like a dissimular metal seebeck thermoelement effect battery additionally powered by enhanced radioactive decay.
This way also probably the AGC cells from Walt work for their
long output additionally to the galvanic action taking place.
The radioactive impurities probably play a major role in the
graphite material.
Also the zapping of Hutchinson with HV pulses can
trigger a better radioactive decay, so they release more decay
particles in a timeframe and thus charge up the
metall cylinders with a higher voltage than normal
for the galvanic dissimular metals voltage.


Regards, Stefan.

[KoenL]

Hi Stefan & all,

nice to see you've got a summary of our Hutchinson/Reid cell discussion posted!


I'd just like to add the stuff I dug up on the petroelectric effect, which appears
to be directly related.
The presence of potential differences in certain natural (and artificial) rock types
was researched and documented by Townsend T. Brown a decade or 3 ago,
and termed petroelectrical effect (or petrovoltaics). He found it was present
in certain types of granite, as well as certain basalt rocks, and was able to measure
a couple of millivolts and milliamperes by painting copper strips on opposing sides
of samples of these rocks, and attaching them to sensitive measurement equipment.
Later on he found out that these rocks generally had a high dielectric constant (K),
and tested a few artificial dielectric materials for the same effect successfully.
The materials he mentions include barium titanate, lead zirconate, tungsten carbide,
and lead monoxide, as well as certain oils. This effect therefore is clearly not
confined to crystalline solids, although atmittedly those are easier to work with.
He found this effect to be distinct and seperate from the piezoelectric and
pyroelectric effect, although I cannot find any documentation that clearly
shows he tested the materials under constant low or high temperatures to
prove the latter, nor regulated pressure or vacuum ot prove the former.
He must have tried some variations in ambient conditions in order to reach
that conclusion, however.
In any case, he termed it petroelectric effect because he first found it in
solid natural rock types, and I do not at this time see any reason to challenge
the name of the effect, for it does not change the nature of the effect at all.
For more information on T. Brown's research into this, see this link:
http://www.soteria.com/brown/docs/epetro
It contains all of Browns typed documentation on the petroelectric effect.

It seems Marcus Reid came across this effect in natural calcite, and
did his own research, parallel to and independently from that of Brown,
although apparently confined to the effect in calcite material.
How Hutchinson came across the effect remains unclear, he may have
stumbled upon it himself or also found Browns documentation.
Interestingly, Hutchinson apparently claims to have built versions
of 'his' power source that produce up to a number of kiloVolt,
which is quite encourageing for experimentors. Also, it is mentioned
in certain articles about Hutchinsons Japan tour that he mentioned
he used barium titanate in some of his prototypes... Brown clearly
mentions barium titanate as one of the dielectrics that show a
petroelectric effect. Another encourageing fact.
Another article (found on www.hutchinsoneffect.com) mentions
how Hutchinson used 'metal coated quartz plates', and I cannot
help to think that it is interesting that granite consists among other
things of quartz.
Whether or not the petroelectric effect is completely disconnected from
piezoelectrics is not entirely clear to me, since I know that both quartz and
barium titanate exhibit piezoelectric properties...
Perhaps all of the materials Brown mentions do...? Perhaps calcite does
as well?
Not that it matters much for the experimentor who wants to build
a 'battery'/'power source' based on this effect, of course. Whatever
the relation between petro- and piezo-electric effects may be, the
battery will still work. 

Kind regards,
Koen

[triffid]

test,just wanted a link back to this thread