3 HP motor works with 116 V and 0.42 Amp. (But don't have enough power)

[Humbugger]

Ash...

You might just as well tell me that your two engineers are in the back room converting lead to gold or apples to oranges.

It sounds like no one here disagrees that it requires real power to run real energy loads. 

Why do you insist on making up those bogus equations which compare VAR output vs. Watts input?  You see, the definition of VAR is that it is just as much an input as an output!  So, for your equation to stand, you must put the VAR number on both sides of the equation for COP.  Every VAR of output power is immediately turned around and shoved back into the system as one VAR of input power! 

This is not because of a bad conventional political-economic-compromised physics theory or because I claim it true or because hundreds of tests have been done.  This is because that is the definition of reactive power and its unit of measure!

In a nutshell, if your engineers are claiming to you that they can make you "a black box" which presents a purely reactive load like a capacitor bank to the energy source (your generator) yet which also gives real power output to an external real resistive load, then they are not telling you the truth.  If they could do that, then you could skip all the rotary machinery. 

If you have a box of electronics that reflects all the power put into it back to the source, yet also provides an equal (or any) forward power into real loads, then you're done!  Just plug it into your wall socket; it won't register any energy use, since it is purely reactive with a power factor of zero.  Now simply attach all your regular energy-hogging loads to it's magical output port and you're home free!  Infinite COP!  Skip the heavy machinery!

Watts and VAR...these two units of power measure are not the same and, regardless of what your unconventional engineers claim, they cannot, by their very definitions, be cross-converted.  Every VAR will always be a VAR; every Watt a Watt.  A load can be tuned or a resonant circuit can be tapped but in the end, all reactive power is, by definition of the term itself, reflected back to its source and is not forward-flowing energy in a power train and cannot legitimately be measured in efficiency or COP calculations. 

When will you show us a valid real-power in vs real-power out demonstration with the scope and meters hooked up in real time and with a load that represents real forward energy transfer?  You obviously had the proper loads and equipment to do that right there in the video in question. Why didn't you use them? Anything short of that, you must logically agree, is no kind of valid demonstration at all!

Anyone can produce all kinds of fancy unsupported theories, inconclusive demonstrations, assertive publications, wild claims, sincere promises and endless excuses...thousands are doing it every day, it seems.  You may even be able to persuade millions of people that your theories are correct!  You can shout down, ridicule and ostracize those who don't agree.

None of that yet changes the world energy situation one tiny iota until real forward energy is actually fed into real loads at 100% or greater efficiency.  Those of us who have heard the claims and promises and theories are still waiting for the first wee tiny bit of actual scientific evidence. 


Humbugger

[wattsup]

@Humbugger

What if the VAR was sent to an AC to DC transformer.
Would the DC side be VAR also or unstable?

[Humbugger]

@Humbugger

What if the VAR was sent to an AC to DC transformer. see below
Would the DC side be VAR also or unstable?  No such thing as a DC VAR

By definition, a VAR is a unit of measure, not a thing.  VARs are not "sent".  VAR is a way of stating and quantifying what happens when a certain alternating electrical force (Volts) is applied to a certain reactive load (net inductance or capacitance of +/-j Ohms reactive).  The calculations are similar to Ohm's law except that TIME enters into the equation.  The big thing to remember is that pure reactances store and give back energy; they do not "use" or "convert" or "dissipate" energy like resistive elements do.

Reactive loads, when AC current is forced through them by AC voltage being imposed across their leads, alternately store and then give back electrical energy on each cycle of the AC wave.  Net consumption is zero.  Resistive loads change the form of the input energy to heat or other forms and do not give it back to the source. 

There is no such thing as DC reactance, therefore there is no such thing as DC VAR.  All DC power is properly measured in Watts and is "real". 

You cannot "send VAR" into a resistive load any more than you can "send Watts" into a reactive load.  The phase angle of the power will be determined 100% by the load across which the voltage is being measured and through which the current is being measured.  This is true regardless of the internal inductance or capacitance of the power source. 

In other words, no matter what the output impedance of the source looks like, the measured voltage and current through a purely resistive external load will always be in phase and those through a purely reactive load will always be 90 degrees out of phase.  The phase angle measured at the load is only a function of the load and not of the source.  The amplitudes of voltage and current are, on the other hand, effected by both the load and source impedances.

Please go back four posts and read the tutorial.  It explains it very well with pictures and simple equations.

Humbugger

[wattsup]

So would putting a transformer on the AC output of a generator, and, measuring the dc output as real watts suffice to show OU or not on an RV system?

[Humbugger]

So would putting a transformer on the AC output of a generator, and, measuring the dc output as real watts suffice to show OU or not on an RV system?

Yes but it's not necessary at all.  A transformer is not necessary; a simple bridge rectifier and very large filter cap will do.  DC measurements are not prone to the misunderstandings and measurement errors due to phase shift and power factor, but the output side measurement really doesn't need nearly that much attention!

It is far easier and much less lossy to simply assure the use of essentially-resistive loads like big non-inductive resistor banks or groups of incandescent lamps.  Even wirewound (inductive) resistors will have so little reactance at 50 or 60Hz that it can be ignored, causing way less than 1 degree phase shift.  If your OU machine puts out 10KHz square waves, however, you'll need to be a lot pickier.

As I just said in the last post, there will be no phase shift observed in a resistive load no matter what the source impedance is.  A wideband true RMS reading meter should be used so that harmonic distortions do not compromise the measurements, but phase shift between voltage and current cannot and will not appear in resistive loads.  All power flowing into a purely resistive load is real power and may be measured, calculated and expressed in Watts.

Time, however, can still cause big measurement errors, even if everything is measured in DC units or perfect resistive loads are used to measure AC output power.  See my post in the Charles Campbell thread for more on the other kind of time-imposed problems in systems with large internal energy storage.  http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2487.msg45667.html#msg45667

Also, if a sytem being measured requires an AC input, then we have no control over the power factor and phase angle there because it is established by the equipment being tested, not the power source.  My recommendation overall is that a high-quality watthour meter which measures only real power as opposed to apparent power (VAR+Watts) be used. 

In any event, inaccurate readings due to including VAR at the input will lead to lower COP numbers rather than larger-than-life ones as when VAR is included in output measurements.

I'm not sure whether the cheapo units like the KillaWatt and others qualify under those terms, but you can get meters that will accumulate only true watt-hours real and ignore VAR.  Fluke makes one or two and many of the new solid state panel-style watthour meters give independent displays of Watts, VAR and VA Apparent (Watts + VAR). 

Analog Devices has cheap chips and evaluation boards that are able to distinguish between real and apparent power, so it would not be too tough or hugely expensive to build something up.