Stanley Meyer replication with low input power

[Farrah Day]

Hi DM

Just thought I'd let you know that in recent tests using a ss test cell, I found that my cell too held a standing voltage.  I discussed this a lot on my thread as I found it quite surprising.  I found that I had this voltage even before the cell was conditioned, and found that even out of the water on my workbench the voltage remained.

In fact I went to great lengths to try to remove the voltage, but found this very difficult to do as it would not seem to short out like a normal capacitor would!  Like you my cell held it's charge for hours, sometimes taking a full 24 hours to fully discharge - it would power a LED for a good while. I was and still am quite intrigued by this.  In it's unconditioned state, I have to suspect that the very thin chromium oxide layer that protects the stainless steel had to be responsible for this.

I'm surprised you had success using calcium hydroxide to condition your cell, I tried this and calcium oxide and found both these compounds not to work (that said I never gave it very long).  Assuming that the white coating was a result of the natural mineral limestone (calcium carbonate) in our tap water, I had real success doping my tap water with calcium carbonate, which is effectively the limescale forming mineral in out tap water.  I assume that only your cathode conditioned?

Using calcium carbonate, my cell developed a good white coating in only 4 hours at 0.5 amp.  I may be wrong, but I think that the white coating is itself calcium hydroxide and is formed by the reaction of calcium carbonate.  The fact that it only develops on the cathode indicates an electrochemical reaction, so whatever is reacting in the water is different to the end product on the cathode - otherwise it would be on the anode too.

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
I have just introduced a new design for a simple, cheap, and efficient hydrogen booster-electrolizer. You can find the info here- http://oupower.com/index.php?dir=_Other_Peoples_Projects/mrgalleria/Mr.%20G%20cell&PageNum=1
Bill

[supermuble]

I am new to the forum, I just spent hours trying to read most of this long thread. I am tired now and so I am summarizing everything I can think of that I have read in the past few days - everyone please feel free to add or correct information where you think it is wrong, or incomplete. I would like to have a comprehensive understanding of the WFC technology, and also a list of accurate notes when I do decide to try building one.

Before I list my notes, I have to say:

I don't understand why the Lawton circuit won't work - if you simply add a step-up transformer. The low voltage pulse is stepped up to a high voltage, sent through the high voltage blocking diode, and through the charging chokes to overload the capacitor by not allowing any of the voltage in it to slip away. My knowledge of circuits is very limited, but it seems like the Lawton circuit is just the pulse generator circuit without the VIC (voltage intensifier) hooked up. If you add the VIC to the Lawton circuit, you should have something that will work.

Also why wouldn't an automotive coil work for the step-up transformer? Since the high voltage diode is in place, along with the inductors (charging chokes) the signal is smoothed out. It is designed to accept a basic 12 volt input signal which would work well with the typical Lawton circuit. Perhaps I am totally missing something?

LIST OF NOTES

These items are related to building a WFC and are in no particular order. Correct me where I am wrong, but please explain in detail.

-Stan did not start with a large surface area (see initial patents, etc) - the larger surface area makes the need for much larger inductors.

-Start with small tubes and small surface area

-Larger surface area's in a larger cell require larger inductors (charging chokes), so limit cell size. Make more separate cells later if necessary instead.

-Stan Used 304 Stainless Steel and specifically said in his patent that it needs to be non-oxidizing. Chemicals in tap water that will create oxides on the metal mean that it WILL probably affect the way the process works completely. If you have conductive particles floating in the water, you'll be lowering the resistance of the water and changing the entire process. Tap water will work, but it would only make sense that distilled water or filtered water (without chlorine, etc) could make the process go better.

-Stan used very high resistance inductors, these need to be slightly oversized and will not work as intended if undersized.

-The charging chokes need very small wire, stainless steel is best since it has high resistance so will use less wraps and will be easier to build, but small copper can be used.

-I read that the charging choke should have somewhere around 11,000 ohms or higher resistance - need to source this.

-Stan talked about a bifilar coil design with both charging chokes being wound parallel on the same core

-One of Stans inductors (charging chokes) was 4800 feet long and made from Stainless wire (just an example).

-Stans round tubes yielded a 350% improvement in gas yield per surface area than the flat plates. Thus there would be less energy loss through tubes rather than plates.

-The Lawton pulse generator is a signal generator without the Meyer VIC circuit. The VIC needs to be added to replicate the Meyer patent.

-The tube spacing needs to be kept at 1.5mm and no less. The water should break down at a given time, and with gaps that are too close, the VIC becomes worthless because it can short before achieving it's intended purpose of creating tons of hydrogen for every dielectric breakdown event that occurs.

-For a very simple water fracturing process, simply place plates or tubes at .005 - .010" from each other. This will produce  hydrogen with any circuit using low voltage even in distilled water. This can be done using spoons to demonstrate the effect of the "electrical polarization process" that Stanley Meyer invented.

-Stan Meyer is not trying to trick anyone, he is just overcharging a capacitor and causing a breakdown of the dielectric liquid, which releases the tremendous stored energy in the huge inductors all at once thereby ripping apart the water molecule. The huge inductors serve to save up the energy - the huge inductors are part of the free energy, in accordance with the wide gap of .060" at the tubes, no energy is being wasted until precisely the right time when the inductors can release their potential energy.

-Regarding practical applications for the people who can't wait, The Electrical Polarization process can be used with straight DC to produce hydrogen and to exponentially increase the efficiency of electrolysis, therefore anyone could theoretically run their car on water using a combination of VERY tightly spaced tubes and a solvent with low DC voltage and high current. In my own tests, the water practically boils out of the containers when using tightly spaced tubes as compared to using a widely spaced anode and cathode with the same input power.

Well I look forward to hearing more on this subject. It is very nice having so many like minded people trying to work together. Keep up the good work and the experiments.

~Supermuble~

[ashtweth_nihilisti]

the Lawton cell produces very short, very sharp 1,200 volt pulses. Those who don't get it either the oscilloscope is not able to track it (probable) and/or the circuit is not generating the proper waveform.
given to me by Patrick Kelly.

[mrgalleria]

Aloha,
Great analysis and comment. Thanks for the summary and questions.
I agree that an auto coil should work, it is a great inductor.
Regarding a power source, go to oupower.com and look at Alaskastar project pages for diagrams on how to modify an auto alternator.
You said to start with a small surface area, refering to Stan's patent. I believe that the patent drawings are for example. I believe it is a good idea to look at what Stan did. In the video with the buggy in his back yard, He had a big cell. Maybe experimenting with small cells will cause discouragement, as the cell may disappoint. This may hinder individual advancement, know what I mean? As you said, auto coils could be used. There is no reason to limit cell size on the basis of access to large enough inductors.
Stan used tap water. If our cell is working like Stan's, then it will use tap water too, right? You and just about everyone else is worrying about "conductive particles in the water" or the water. Stan was not worried about them, and we should not if we are attempting replication.
Those factors MUST influence our understanding of the cells action. If you want to change that, then you are going in a different direction. You are not replicating.
I have seen no one yet fully replicate Stan's original design in full. I too am attempting this, but remain unsuccessful to now.
Remember in the buggy video, as well as others, where Stan said "5 volts, 2 amps"? Does your summary come to this conclusion as well? You said "Stan Meyer is not trying to trick anyone, he is just overcharging a capacitor and causing a breakdown of the dielectric liquid, which releases the tremendous stored energy in the huge inductors all at once thereby ripping apart the water molecule." Is the "brakedown" of the liquid the result of "tremendous energy" "ripping apart the water molecule"? If so, Stan's device can be easily replicated. If not, you and the others have not got it. You are going the wrong direction.
Think again about why the cell is pulsed, and with a square wave. I have explained previously how the cell worked, and I don't think anyone believes me. So much more so, Stan never explained it this way in his patents because scientifically it would not have been accepted. Did you know that Stan's original patent applications were denied. That may well have been because they stated facts that we not approved by the patent office scientists, nor known accepted science.
Bill