Rotational PMM by wizkycho

[wizkycho]

This is basically the EXACT SAME concept as the Torbay Magnet Motor from Argentiina, but MUCH easier to build and test.

Bravo, this is great.

Only two questions need asking....

Does is take as much force to move the shield when the rotor is on the device as opposed to when the rotor isn't on the device?

and

Does the shield itself have a tendency to want to move toward the rotor magnets? AND if so, is the torque on the shield to move toward the rotor magnets the same as the torque on the rotor magnets moving toward the shield?


Basically, if there is no real torque on the shield when the rotor magnets are there or not and the shield effectively creates a 'zone of less North magnetic flux' then the torque of the rotor-with-magnets will 100% overcome the anti-torque(if there is any) of the shield moving toward the rotor magnets and this device will work almost indefinitely like you said.

Just like the Torbay setup, "a cat chasing its tail!"

There are more differneces than similarities. Torbay uses gravity and no shield.
It can not work in zero gravity environment (Space).
O/I ratio is much lower than RPMM.
Knitel's RPMM as idea was introduced way before Torbays.
Torbays device has "only" one advantage. It has been built and proven to work.So Hurray for Torbay.

"Does is take as much force to move the shield when the rotor is on the device as opposed to when the rotor isn't on the device?"

Theory: When rotor2(magnets) is in place slightly more force is needed to rotate rotor1(shield) as opposed when rotor2 is not set.
This small attraction force + friction represents ammount of energy needed for input to rotor1 to start the device.

"Does the shield itself have a tendency to want to move toward the rotor magnets? AND if so, is the torque on the shield to move toward the rotor magnets the same as the torque on the rotor magnets moving toward the shield?"

Theory: shield rotor has slight attract tendency to move to rotor2 (back). But Rotor2 (now in repulsion field) has many times more
tendency (Force) to get in balanced position (follow shield).
Rotor2(magnets) is strongly repeled pushed from outer source of energy (ring magnet)
Shield is not affected by that outer ring magnet. In every position it has same potential.
Output energy is abs sum of (slight attraction(rotor1-rotor2))+(strong repel(rotor2-stator ring magnet))

Why is needed to adjust device to feel small atraction between rotor1 and 2 ?
It is for practicall reasons so when device is not working it can rest and not depleting its magnet fields.
It is harder to develop system that will move rotor2 further away when not working.

I need some constructional idea help
If I put rotor2 on outer ring of bearing it will in operation wobble cause outer ring of
bearing is not 100% firm it can move a bit, so when rotor2 is pushed from outer ring magnet it will, well, wobble.
Any suggestion how to avoid this beahviour ?


Knitel Igor alias Wizkycho

Perihelion Labs

[Paul-R]

> I need some constructional idea help
> If I put rotor2 on outer ring of bearing it will
> in operation wobble cause outer ring of
> bearing is not 100% firm it can move a bit,
> so when rotor2 is pushed from outer ring magnet
> it will, well, wobble. Any suggestion how to
> avoid this beahviour ?
> Knitel Igor alias Wizkycho
> Perihelion Labs

I do not really understand the problem. So I will make a suggestion and you
can throw it in the bin if no good.

If you use two strong concentric ring magnets as a magnetic bearing, then it would
take up the gap or error as an equally disposed gap around the shaft.

Alternatively, an air bearing, with compressed air being pumped down radial
drilled holes would do a similar job.
Paul.

[arktik]

Hi Igor,

A short briefing of what I experienced:
1.using the bell shaped shield the force aplied to the shield is the same that is obtained by the magnet rotor; I aplied a rotational force to the magnet rotor and get the same force aplied to the shield wich sems strange..the shield is mu-metal in 1.2mm thickness.You noticd that the gaps in the shield are les than half of the shield surface, actulay is 3 time rotor magnet wide.There should be the repulsion hill or wave and it is so.But the shield folows the rotor magnet with the same force, wich is strange because should follow it only by the attraction force only wich is smaller.

2.I changed the bell shaped shield with a "|_____|" one , or a U shape, with a 2 cm wide one
and experienced the same .

Observation: the tests are roughly done because I didn't actualy measure the forces involved but I only "felt" 'em by hand.

Anyways...due to the time lack I don't conclude anything negative on this so far since the linear test is clearly positive.

[Charlie_V]

I'm still really confused on how this is suppose to work.  From the pictures, it looks like you spin the shielding plates which causes permanent magnets right above the shield to also spin.  So now the permanent magnets are spinning with the shield?  Where is the output energy suppose to come from?  If you put a load on the permanent magnet rotor, you would just be driving the load with the shield until the load force becomes so strong that the shielding slips.  I don't see how extra energy is suppose to come from this.  Can anyone clarify?  I see this topic is about 2 years old, maybe its not worth the time anymore.

[wizkycho]

Hi all !

RPMM version 1 is 80% complete. and i can confirm that upper rotator with magnets is strongly following lower rotator (with shielding)
and that force as predicted IS STRONGER then force needed to move lower rotator. Upper rotator (magnets in repel) is not to close to ring magnet
when this is observed so I think it wan't deplete magnets. 

...due to strong forces lower rotator is bending mainshaft (screws for shaft don't hold well in plastic) so shielding rotator touches ring magnet.
(on pic1 black gluing paper around SiFe sheets - right side touches(strongly attracted) ring magnet. upper rotator (magnets) is released.)
this must be fixed first and it's not easy. attractional force of ring magnet and lower shield rotator is very strong. I underestimated this in this version.
principle of work - if someone missed animated pic2...

Wiz