SMOT! - (previously about the OC MPMM)

[Low-Q]

Notice carefully, in SMOT the greatest strain is at what is marked there as point A (in your experiment this is point B). Point A in SMOT (that is, your point B) is where the experiment begins and spontaneously ends in SMOT. In your case the experiment begins at your point B but does not end spontaneously there. Hope now you can see the difference and that it's a substantial difference.

I don't follow you when you say that point A in a SMOT is where the experiment begins, but you have to manually impart energy to tha ball to make it through point B in SMOT, right? Point A is however where the experiment ends. So I can see similarities between shruggedatlas model and SMOT. Anyone sharing this view?

Vidar

[Low-Q]

Not so. The ball at B in your experiment is at the greatest strain because it at the greatest distance from the pivot X than if it were at A. Thus, like I said, your point B (the beginning but not the spontaneous end of your experiment) is called point A (the beginning and spontaneous end of experiment) in SMOT.

Your experiment need not be discussed any further because it is trivial and is in no way an analogue of SMOT.

I am confused.  At point A in the SMOT experiment, the strain from the magnet is lowest, because it is fartherst away from the magnet, and in my experiment, at point A, the rubber band has the least strain on the ball, because the ball is closest to the pivot X.  So I cannot see what you are talking about.  A is A.

All that aside, why does it even matter where strain is stronger or weaker?  The bottom line is there are two conservative fields involved and overlaid, resulting in the ball moving under the influence of the two fields in an A-B-C-A "closed loop".  A mechanical advantage, the ramp, temporarily assists one of the conservative fields to overcome the other. 

I bet if you used your equations on my example, you would also see violation of CoE.

In your model, the force toward C from B, is greatest at point B. Then gradually decrease towards C. The ball is in proportion to X running downhill while going from B to C while the strain between the ball and X is also decreasing. In a SMOT the magnetic field is most dense right before point C, and the ball is as an equivalent to your model, running downhill too - even if the magnets is geographical fixed as uphill. The difference is that the "strain" in a SMOT is greatest at point C, but still a point where we could place the ball and the ball would not do anything but going to rest.

When the ball pass C in a SMOT it will fall down towards A. The forces acting on the ball, magnetical and gravitational, will not give the ball the same acceleration pattern compared to your model

There is many similarities, but the forces acting on the ball is quite different, and even opposite, but I believe in general, your model and a SMOT will act fairly similar if you only focus on the balls behaviour.

Vidar

[Omnibus]

Not so. The ball at B in your experiment is at the greatest strain because it at the greatest distance from the pivot X than if it were at A. Thus, like I said, your point B (the beginning but not the spontaneous end of your experiment) is called point A (the beginning and spontaneous end of experiment) in SMOT.

Your experiment need not be discussed any further because it is trivial and is in no way an analogue of SMOT.

I am confused.  At point A in the SMOT experiment, the strain from the magnet is lowest, because it is fartherst away from the magnet, and in my experiment, at point A, the rubber band has the least strain on the ball, because the ball is closest to the pivot X.  So I cannot see what you are talking about.  A is A.

All that aside, why does it even matter where strain is stronger or weaker?  The bottom line is there are two conservative fields involved and overlaid, resulting in the ball moving under the influence of the two fields in an A-B-C-A "closed loop".  A mechanical advantage, the ramp, temporarily assists one of the conservative fields to overcome the other. 

I bet if you used your equations on my example, you would also see violation of CoE.

Of course, you are confused and that is from the very start because you refuse to understand that despite the fact that the ball at A in SMOT is the farthest from the magnet, at A in SMOT the ball has the greatest magnetic potential energy. I explained this especially for you several times but it somehow doesn't sink. This is a common mistake people make but I explained why this is so thoroughly and I thought by now you should know that elementary fact. At A in SMOT the force of the magnetic field is the weakest but the magnetic potential energy is the greatest. Never confuse force with energy. Never.

Also, not all superpositions of conservative fields yield the results we observe in SMOT. In your example the ball cannot even spontaneous;y close the loop B-C-A-B which (with the proper substitution of the letters) is observed to happen in SMOT.

Thus, your bet that using the equation I applied in SMOT will prove violation of CoE also in your example is a losing bet.

Again, your example is trivial, it doesn't violate CoE and need not be discussed any further.

[konduct]

Omnibus will never be banned because he is an "Elite Member" . IIRC these are people who pay a monthly fee to be rid of the numerous advertisements on this site .

Lol so it's not that Stefan blelieves or supports Omnibus's abusive behaviour,
but rather a matter of Omnibus paying Stefan to be allowed to abuse people here?
Rofl

Well that seems to imply we can quite safely ignore everything Omnibus
says untill he finally posts some proof. He is not here because he has a great idea
or because his posts contribute to the forum, he is here because his money
contributes to the forum and that gives him the idea that he has some form of authority.

Fucking amazing...Stefan better ban me then cause I'm about to start a shitstorm in here.  Fuck you and your moral stature Stefan. This is about like Hostel II where people pay good money to torture other people to death.  Sick bastard. This is the biggest bunch of bullshit...so sick of these comments...I wish I could just whoop Omnibus's ass and be done with it...miss the good ol days.

We should at least have the ability to block his comments from our browser while we're viewing the forum.  Like a mute button.

[ramset]

I hear the keys jingling   you should definately count to ten  or put up a punching bag next to the computer   around this thread  you'd be in shape in no time   Chet