F.B.D.I.S.S.M - Flux.Boosted.Dual.Induction.Split.Spiral.Motor.

[tsakou]

Sorry, wrong of me. I was to fast and sloppy when calculating.
The motor has 6 poles and I excpect the motor to free spinn at least 2000-3000 RPM
If I hit 3000 RPM then this is 50 revolutions per second. 50 x 6 rotor heads = 300Hz
300Hz is still to high for any mechanical solution to be effective. Don't forget you'll have to move the magnets at least 2cm.
The solenoids would also cause a lot of noise while operating the magnets. A terrible thing to listen to.
Any mass movement unless being circular is a total waste of energy.
The highly advanced Supermalloy electro magnet solution is beyond question the best and most efficient way to go.
You must also consider that I must be able to design and build the motor myself.
The mechanical design you suggest is impossible to build in an simple and reliable, yet robust way.
The timing would be the most tricky part, and sensitive to any external influence, like vibrations and shock.

Yes, mechanical way has problems, but electromagnets have too. You know your design better than any other. If mechanical is out of question I don't have a problem with that. I only just tried to help. I still believe that the magnetic ramp can have small distance difference first-last magnet. But as you said, you want to make the motor yourself, so you may not have the tools to do mechanical work with accuracy of 0,5mm and higher.

Just remember, there is a huge difference in strength when the magnets are 1mm away than being 1cm. You may have the same power at 1/10th of the speed, so mechanical might not be a problem at that speed. (In case you get stuck with electromagnets, and cannot continue using them.)

Kostas

[Honk]

But as you said, you want to make the motor yourself, so you may not have the tools to do mechanical work with accuracy of 0,5mm and higher.

I have the tools but the complexity of a reliable mechanical solution is far more difficult to design than using advanced Supermalloy electro magnets.

Just remember, there is a huge difference in strength when the magnets are 1mm away than being 1cm.
You may have the same power at 1/10th of the speed, so mechanical might not be a problem at that speed.
(In case you get stuck with electromagnets, and cannot continue using them.)

Sorry, you are wrong about the huge difference in force between 1mm and 1cm. The distance you mention applies to small thin magnets.
You can see for yourself the difference in force between 1mm and 1cm on the magnet size I intend to use. At 1mm there is a massive force of 189,6kg to move.
At 1cm distance there's still 85kg force left to be moved by the solenoid. Not an easy task.
At 2cm there is still 1/4 of the force left to be moved, and that is a very heavy work to perform at 300hz speed on a rotor magnet
weighing 650grams, and each rotor magnet does weigh this much. The moving stator magnets would need to be of the same size.

[Honk]

I'm just wondering about how you are going to distribute the magnetic flux along each stator with that kind of shape.

It is evenly distributed by the stator magnets being equally strong of the same size and polarity.

I wonder about this as you sure know that a smaller magnet which is approaching a long magnet are forced into the middle of the long magnet,
and not necessarily forced to the closest end of it.

This does not apply to a situation where the rotor magnet is traveling along a gradient slope. You must not see it as linear magnets approaching each other.
In this setup the highest flux is found at the narrow end of the spiral where the magnets can meet together at the closest distance, thus seeking the most flux.

What I mean is that the rotor magnet in your design in fact will deaccelerate before it reaches the closest end of the stator magnet,
because the greatest magnetic attraction is not at the closest end but some distance before it - however, not in the middle as the
stator magnet is not in "parallell" with the rotation.

It will not deaccelerate at all. Haven't you seen the video I mentioned earlier in this thread?
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,3456.msg56873.html#msg56873
http://freenrg.info/Sprain/Paul_Harry_Sprain_magnet_motor.avi
His magnets doesn't stop a bit past halfway as you seem to believe, simple due to the gradient wall of stator magnets.
It will however stop at the very end of the stator magnets, but the electro magnets will act as an extra stator magnet and this will trick the rotor into a new loop.
The gained momentum of the movement and the other rotor magnets pushing will help push the end rotor magnet into the electro magnet area while also getting attracted & then repelled.
I have explained this several times. And there is the video to. It's working fine for him, why not me? What is so difficult to get?

Hence, I think you have to add more energy to the electromagnet than calculated to force the statormagnet to pass that most attraction point to the stator magnets.
Then you probably already have used that excess energy you, or Paul Sprain for that matter, are hoping for. Any thoughts about this problem - if it is a problem?

I don't know the amount of energy I have to add to overcome the sticky spot, but it is minimised by the Supermalloy.
And I have no clue of there will be any OU with this type of motor. I just have the earlier report from Sprain to rely on.
His claims is 200W in and 11544W out. But I do understand how the motor works and how the OU is supposed of being achieved.

Simply put:
The electro magnets have to be timed to feed the least possible power to the motor to keep the natural high torque spinning continue.
Forget all bedtime stories about recapturing the induced back EMF to achieve OU or other theories.
Recycling the BEMF will give a higher COP but its not crusial to achive OU according to the reports from Sprain himself.
Don't forget that if you recapture all of the BEMF you will get back pull on the rotor magnets. In real life you can perhaps recycle 10% at most.
It's the natural high torque at the highest usable RPM that is responsible for the OU claims. Not the BEMF.

I hope this clear things up for all of you interested guys. 

Sorry for not being humble today! 
Thank you / Honk

[Low-Q]

Honk,

I have seen the video many times, and also your explanations, but there is a few holes in your explanations you haven't taken into account (That's how I feel about it, anyway - so never mind ).
There is no guarantee that the video is not a trick - I can see a distortion every same place of the stator magnet. As it encrease the speed, the distrortion is just moved to another position. Look close and you'll see that the acceleration is also very sudden at the very same time this happens.
Well, so I assumed this video was a trick.
Anyway, an array of equal magnets will distribute the magnetic field in 90 degrees across the length only in its middle, and there will also bee the most attractive place to attract a smaller magnet. The flux regardless of magnetic angle is however even through the whole magnet array but as the angle shifts, the attractive force to another magnet will be less powerfull even if the flux density is the excact same all the way. So that's why I asked.

It will be interesting to see your final product anyway. Good luck

Vidar

[tsakou]

Sorry, you are wrong about the huge difference in force between 1mm and 1cm. The distance you mention applies to small thin magnets.
You can see for yourself the difference in force between 1mm and 1cm on the magnet size I intend to use. At 1mm there is a massive force of 189,6kg to move.
At 1cm distance there's still 85kg force left to be moved by the solenoid. Not an easy task.
At 2cm there is still 1/4 of the force left to be moved, and that is a very heavy work to perform at 300hz speed on a rotor magnet
weighing 650grams, and each rotor magnet does weigh this much. The moving stator magnets would need to be of the same size.

Understood, good luck with your design.