Selfrunning cold electricity circuit from Dr.Stiffler

[samedsoft]

Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,

   I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.


Applied Voltage    Consumed Current (w/AlPlate)    Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
         20V                      17mA                                            21mA
         30V                      20mA                                            35mA
         36V                      28mA                                            50mA

   ** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
   ** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!

   Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground? Do you agree??


   We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
   When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.

   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??

--

Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer

[DrStiffler]

Dear Dr. Stiffler, Loki, plengo,

   I have done some tests with the SEC circuit and below is the results.


Applied Voltage    Consumed Current (w/AlPlate)    Consumed Current (wo/AlPlate)
         20V                      17mA                                            21mA
         30V                      20mA                                            35mA
         36V                      28mA                                            50mA

   ** With Al Plate, it Neon is brighter and consumes less current.
   ** With building ground (connected to the Al plate connection port), And If we apply 30V SEC consumes 50mA!!

   Result: pumping electrons from Air via Aliminum plate is better than pumping from ground? Do you agree??


   We measured about 50VDc at the neon lamp when 36Vdc input applied.
   When we disconnect neon and measure the output voltage it is 180Vdc when 36Vdc input applied.

   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV??

--

Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
MSc EEE. Automation Engineer

@samedsoft
I was unaware you posted questions as well as the PM. I responded to your PM with answers to your questions, see that mail.

**   Is there any way to inrease the output voltage to 1000V or 10 kV?? **
This was not included in the PM so I will answer it here, Yes to 1KV, I don't know and have not tried above 1KV, I don't think it would be a good idea to go there, environment gets a bit strange up there.....

I did ask in the PM about what instruments you used to do the measurements as some of the readings seem way off, by 50%.

[DrStiffler]

@Dr. Stiffler,

Starting point:
After initial setting supply was not adjusted, base coil was not tuned from first peak, just Ne moved as stated.

Supply Input reacted as following:
24.20 VDC  54ma        No Neon        1.30 Watt
24.07 VDC  64ma        Ne at A-A'      1.54 Watt
23.83 VDC  70ma        Ne at B-B'      1.66 Watt
23.63 VDC  74ma        Ne at C-C'      1.74 Watt
23.51 VDC  77ma        Ne at D-D'      1.81 Watt

Edit: After this point I did start tuning and adjusting voltages but the first series was recorded with the circuit untouched except for Ne load point. Loki

As the neon was moved from A-A' through D-D' the input power increased from 1.30 Watts to 1.81 Watts. Peak intensity of the Ne seemed to shift up in frequency as the Ne was moved A-A' to D-D' but power required for that peak intensity did not go back down. Ne was warm regardless of where it was.

I'm still thinking about this. 

Best regards,

Jim

@Loki67671
Strange, you should see a doubling in neon intensity between each step from b to d (the end) and tuning should not have to be changed if tuned at A-A'.

My input current max is only 64mA and I would defy anyone to touch the neon when it is on the end 113'C with he gun.

What is the hfe of the transistor? Is it a MPSA06? Are you sure there is no earth to the plate?

This is a pretty stable effect and a circuit board is even designed for it in a different application, yeah I'll think also, I thought this would be an easy surprise!!!

[Loki67671]

@Loki67671
Strange, you should see a doubling in neon intensity between each step from b to d (the end) and tuning should not have to be changed if tuned at A-A'.

My input current max is only 64mA and I would defy anyone to touch the neon when it is on the end 113'C with he gun.

What is the hfe of the transistor? Is it a MPSA06? Are you sure there is no earth to the plate?

This is a pretty stable effect and a circuit board is even designed for it in a different application, yeah I'll think also, I thought this would be an easy surprise!!!

@Dr. Stiffler,
OK.......You were right, my transistor must have been almost dead, it was having a rough go of starting the Ne. I changed the Ne also. After 4 different transistors, and yes these are MPSA06, I bought 100pc last time, I get to one that fires right up. I don't have the HFE meter here at the house,  I also tore the entire circuit down and rebuilt it on the breadboard and then retested. Now what I'm reporting is subjective for sure. Visual and feel. Visually I can see a bit of luminous increase as I move from A-A' to the END. I don't like to look at them too much because it messes with my vision some. Heat to the touch is definitely increasing step by step and yes the End position seems significantly hotter than than A-A'. The tuning didn't require touch-up this time and I too would challenge someone to hold onto that Neon at the end position. It will burn you.

So the farther out into the plug, effectively adding a pair of 4148's with each move increases the impedance of the load and thus voltage. So this is a way to increase the hi-voltage and thus draw more from the lattice? I can feel the increased current is being dissipated by the transistor as the heat sink is warm, not hot, but warm. I guess these components are only going to take so much of this and then on to the new.

[DrStiffler]

@Dr. Stiffler,
OK.......You were right, my transistor must have been almost dead, it was having a rough go of starting the Ne. I changed the Ne also. After 4 different transistors, and yes these are MPSA06, I bought 100pc last time, I get to one that fires right up. I don't have the HFE meter here at the house,  I also tore the entire circuit down and rebuilt it on the breadboard and then retested. Now what I'm reporting is subjective for sure. Visual and feel. Visually I can see a bit of luminous increase as I move from A-A' to the END. I don't like to look at them too much because it messes with my vision some. Heat to the touch is definitely increasing step by step and yes the End position seems significantly hotter than than A-A'. The tuning didn't require touch-up this time and I too would challenge someone to hold onto that Neon at the end position. It will burn you.

So the farther out into the plug, effectively adding a pair of 4148's with each move increases the impedance of the load and thus voltage. So this is a way to increase the hi-voltage and thus draw more from the lattice? I can feel the increased current is being dissipated by the transistor as the heat sink is warm, not hot, but warm. I guess these components are only going to take so much of this and then on to the new.

@Loki67671
EXCELLENT!
You are on the same page or learning how to respond so I don't go left field

Yes indeed you will see an increase in transistor heat, but it should not be significant (as you stated). Yes you understand in part what is taking place here, but think a moment, what is also happening to the junction capacity of the diodes when they are in series (total capacity per leg)?

When we speak of impedance we must include LCR?, so we have <C, ~>L and ~>R, but the R portion can be figured conventionally as Rj = Vj/Ij

So what is the main difference here (assuming we don't leave the long leads on the 4148's)?

Yeah you are seeing a good part of the picture. So is their a limit, should there be a limit?

Fun Sunday...............