Meyer's Resonant Charging Circuit Analysed

[z_p_e]

Interesting oystla,

However, I would think that this frequency in the case of the Meyer cell will be much much higher than 10 kHz.

[z_p_e]

FD you wrote:

Why would he alter the ccts in his patent?  The patent is designed to protect the invention 'as is' and as such will only protect the invention as given to the patent office. Why would he want something that does not work protected and thereby leave an opening for someone else to patent there own modified proper working version?  Think. If he thought that the patent office would sell on or disclose his invention, then why would he go there in the first place?

Actually, yes. It is quite common for patents to be purposely altered by omission, or incorrect connections etc, for the very purpose of throwing off those who would copy it, change it by 10%, then re-patent it. Critical parts may be left out, or errors drawn so that it doesn't work as submitted.

This is just one more level of protection for them. If a patent really did what it was supposed to, all this ruse de guerre would not be necessary.

[oystla]

Yes, the frequency is the big question....

But the formula for this I believe is;

f (Herz) = ( square ( (1/C1 + 1/C2) / L )  ) / 2pi)

So what values will a diode and a water capapcitor have? Depends on diode make and size of water cell.....

Assume some values;
C1 = C2 = 1E-6 Farad
L= 0,001 Henry

Results in resonant frequency of 5 KHZ.....

[Farrah Day]

Hi Zippy

Yes, I know about varactors, but Meyer's diode is a simple blocking diode. I think that for Oystla to start thinking along the lines of this diode having a capacitance that somehow plays an important role in the workings of Meyer's wfc would be a non-productive waste of time.  How much capacitance do you expect a little tiny diode to exhibit and thereby influence the cct?

I think you will find that all electrolytes offer a non-linear resistance.  Unlike metals conducting electrons, ions are massive and take a lot more 'shifting' - physical movement through the liquid is restricted as they collide into each other and other molecules.  By all means don't take my word for it (a little doubt and scepticism is a healthy and necessary thing - particularly on these forums), but I think you will find that doubling the voltage across a cell containing an electrolyte, does not double the current through it.  Hence the most efficient standard electrolysis in terms of power dissipated comes from cells operating at high current low voltage. 

Of course this is not to be confused with Meyer-type pulsed systems, which must - I hope - be operating on a completely different principle.

In terms of electronic components, I would see our wfc's as a capacitor in series with a non-linear resistor, not in parallel.

Oystla, 6 Farad (if that's what it is) as in your little equation is a massive capacitance and not realistic.  It's all very well talking about equations for tuned LC circuits. But what I want to know is what actually do you hope to achieve in a wfc by hitting the resonant frequency?  In a radio, a parallel LC resonant cct will amplify the required signal when tuned by the capacitor to a specific frequency, so it's purpose is clear, but we don't have a radio.  And besides in a series LC resonant cct (a la Meyer), at resonance the current is theoretically infinite, while the voltage drops to near zero. I'll say again 'resonance' in this context is a 'Meyer' misnomer.

Like I said before, it would make a great deal of sense to know what you are trying to achieve in the first place.  If you tune the wfc and inductor to their resonant frequency, what do you expect to happen... and why??  Frequency is only a big question if you don't know what you are trying to achieve.

It seems to me that there is a common misconception here that by hitting the ccts resonant frequency that something magical will happen in our wfc... it won't - there's more to it than that! 

What you need to ask yourself is, 'What do I want to happen in my wfc?' 'What scientific process am I trying to create or enhance?' and then, 'How do I go about applying the electronics to achieve this?'  Are you looking to get a high voltage - low voltage, high frequency - low frequency? If so why?  You must have some idea of your specific goal and what you want or expect to happen. Simply connecting a few components together in blind faith that the combination will produce lots of gas in your wfc is unrealistic to say the least. 

[oystla]

OK,

My valaue was not 6 farad but 6E-6= 6*10^-6 farad, i.e. 6 mikroFarad...

Anyhow, the diode is probably pretty small value. But notice the formula, it may well be the water capacitor that decides the total frequency.

OK, what is my point ?

The point is that we want to hit the resonance frequency to be able to pulse the CLC circuit and increase the voltage to a higher and higher value, until the water capacitor breaks down and you get an avalanche breakdown of the capacitor, resulting in H2/O2 generation.

The inductor is here the voltage multiplier that will at the end increase the voltage to above the water capacitor maximum value.