Meyer type WFC - from design and fabrication to test and development.

[pcmd]

Farrah Day,

I am currently doing a lot of research on electrolysis, Hydrogen Generation and WFCs online.  I have a decent background in Electronic Engineering but am a little rusty.  I am glad to finally see someone is taking a scientific approach to this whole subject.   It is almost impossible to weed through the infomercial type web sites without being disillusioned.   I must admit the lab you have put together is quite impressive.  I have began the process of setting up my own lab recently. It is a slow process acquiring all the hardware needed but I am almost there.  I am also gathering information schematics and documentation in preparation for my own test WFC.  I have some rather interesting  questions that will need to be answered much later on regarding Automobile O2 sensor modifications or using modified timing and Air/Fuel mapping in a cars ECM.  But that is much later on..... 

Thanks again and keep up the great work

[Tacmatricx]

Hi Farrah,

My bad on the Cathode/Anode mixup... I totally agree with the statement on wet electrolytic capacitors... Dielectric breakdown is usually closely followed by a pop or boom depending on the enclosure and how catastrophic the breakdown was.

One think that I think we have to consider is the state of the dielectric in our WFC's... In a capacitor, The only way a current can pass through it is if it is alternating/pulsing. Otherwise we get a DC voltage potential buildup and discharge. A WFC can function as a capacitor based on your findings (with the exception of not being able to fully discharge it because of the charged ion's clinging to the cell and not being able to be discharged... If I got that right?). However if we are aiming to build up a non conductive dielectric on the cells and this buildup increases gas production... How can putting the inner tube into a condom (as mentioned earlier) be dissimilar to a non conductive plating on the tubes.

I find this really odd that we are all trying to buildup a layer of non conductive material on the tubes (We all know this works and increases production while decreasing current) but placing an insulator between the conditioned tubes ceases all production???

There MUST be something in the white buildup that functions completely UNLIKE a standard dielectric... I would imagine if the inner tube was inside a condom filled with water... It would still act as a capacitor holding a charge and passing pulsing/alternating current? So why does insulating it still allow it to be a capacitor but not a WFC if the same current (alternating/Pulsing) is passing in both scenarios? Can you form the same coating on other metals?

Sorry to add more confusion to this topic but am I the only one finding this totally strange?

I am also grateful for someone putting rational thought and experimentation towards this topic... I am tired of the Mayers style BS that I am forced to consume on a regular basis... too many people are thinking "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit..." sigh

Thank you Farrah! Keep up the fight!

[Farrah Day]

Hi Tac

I understand that Duranza tried coating the cathode with teflon and gas production was nil. This I think would be the same as the condom scenario. Any such dielectric would break down permanantly once sufficient voltage was achieved, and thereafter be useless. Only a self-healing chemical dielectric would be able to fully recover and reform - this was one of the favourable things that wet electrolytic capacitors had going for them.

I'm as mystified by it all as the next person, but feel it's only a matter of time before we get to the bottom of it now.  I'm still of the opinion that it's something to do with a self-healing property of the dielectric formed on ss - whether it be the chromium oxide or the white coating - which I'm fairly confident now, is indeed calcium hydroxide.

It is possible to charge a large capacitor up to a dangerous level with just a 9 volt battery.  The capacitor would show 9 volts, but if very large could store a massive charge.  Shorting the capacitor would produce a large spark as it tries to discharge instantly.  Capacitors are often misunderstood, which can lead to confusion.  If you charge a small capacitor up with a 9 volt battery, it will charge up to a potential difference of  9 volts, the same as a much larger capacitor. But, unlike the small capacitor, the larger one can store a lot more energy as it takes a lot more charge for it to reach the battery's 9 volt potential difference.

I think we must have a similar scenario once we build up our insulating (or highly resistive) coating.  The coating, even if not a true dielectric, will create such a high resistance that charges building up on the electrodes cannot fully discharge through the water between pulses. Hence over time the charges on the electrodes, (even from a very low voltage) can build up to a point where the breakdown voltage is exceeded.  Once this happens we get a rapid ionisation and hence much gas production, until the charges on the electrodes reduce sufficiently enough for the dielectric to reform.  Of course all this can be happening in a fraction of a second.

Hoping I'll know more when I've finished conditioning my electrodes and can do a few tests. 

[Kator01]

Hello Farrah Day,

I once and awhile drop by here I am really confident that this approach you present here will bring success. Now I will bring to your attention something almost everyone who has experimented  with this white-stuff-coating hase overlooked. This makes all of the confusion about capacitor-line behaviour  and apparent contradictions regarding inner resistance etc.

I do not give a  complete answer here because I do not know it all - but I will ask you a very simple question :

Just imagine the conditioning-process . As you let the cell run at 15 volt and 0.5 Ampere two subprocesses happen at the same time.

Question : How does the first calcium-carbonate-layer forming on the steelplate-surface look like if you start conditioning for the first time  ? Does this layer completely seal the steel-surface ? If this is so can then  H2 bubbles rise once this first layer is formed ?

What do you think ?


Kator

[Tacmatricx]

Thanks for the reply Farrah,

A 9VDC battery does have enough "power" to stop your heart or cause serious damage but remember V=IR... It all depends on the resistance in the circuit. If you use a step up transformer to charge a 300V capacitor until the battery is drained... Because it will be 300VDC the resistance of your body will allow a higher current to flow than a 9VDC voltage and it could stop your heart (depending if the fastest way to the other terminal crosses your heart). Current kills... thats why we survive static electricity shocks and lightning strikes (some people).

This is my problem with the dielectric breakdown theory... If I took a 12VDC electric motor that was rated at 1A. I then started the motor and recorded the actual current used as 0.2A. If I tried to start the motor with only 0.2A... I can bet it would try... but probably not go anywhere because it does not have enough current to break the startup requirement. If I added a capacitor in parallel to the motor, the current would build over time and I may have a running motor in a few seconds.

If I apply that to the dielectric theory, it works... The current builds up over time and I get a discharge which is a function of voltage and current (Watts) to give me a spark. The more current I give it, the more often I get a spark or actually maintain a spark.

If this is the case and we apply it to the WFC... More current caused by the dielectric breakdown would give us more gas... But current limiting is the whole idea... we are giving it less current and trying to restrict every way of stopping the current from flowing. We're using high resistance water, high resistance stainless steel, white coatings, reversed bifilar chokes, etc... and we are getting results!

It's all about voltage potential, which does not cause a dielectric to break down without current. If the dielectric breakdown is the key. Then the current flow would be directly proportional to the gas generated (goes along with Newtons law). If we restrict the current, this should prevent cell discharge from occurring as often as it would if we allowed current flow?

If Dielectric breakdown was directly proportional to cell discharges which were again directly proportional to current flow... I doubt any of these cells would be working in OU?

I think you may be onto something with this tho:

"I think we must have a similar scenario once we build up our insulating (or highly resistive) coating.  The coating, even if not a true dielectric, will create such a high resistance that charges building up on the electrodes cannot fully discharge through the water between pulses. Hence over time the charges on the electrodes, (even from a very low voltage) can build up to a point where the breakdown voltage is exceeded.  Once this happens we get a rapid ionisation and hence much gas production, until the charges on the electrodes reduce sufficiently enough for the dielectric to reform.  Of course all this can be happening in a fraction of a second."

Please don't let me stop you, I'm itching for results too!