Meyer type WFC - from design and fabrication to test and development.

[Farrah Day]

Hi Kator, nice to hear from you again.

The build up of white coating is gradual and appears initially as a light dusting of powder, but it does appear uniform. Indeed if you rub it with your fingers when dry it will easily come off, so does not appear to be chemically bonded to the surface - more like just attracted to it. It may be that it's not until it dries out that it actually even adheres to itself.  If you wipe it off, the ss underneath looks clean and healthy.  Current for same voltage through cell did reduce over time, indicating that cell resistance is building up - unless this is due to polarisation.

Hi Tac, like you stated, it's current not voltage that kills.  When testing high voltage ccts at college, we were always taught to have one arm behind our back so that if we caught a shock, the current would travel down our body to ground, rather than across or chests (and heart) to chassis earth!

Now, I don't tend to be too popular on any of the other forums partly because they see me as an arrogant 'know-it-all' Sheila, but mainly because I have a low tolerance for idiots and openly state this. This forum in general seems to exhibit a much higher level of intelligence and understanding of science, and the last thing I want to do is offend anyone.  From my experience of other forums I know I can become unpopular by my bluntness, by talking down to folks or talking above their heads.  The trouble is you just don't know what level the person you are talking to is at, so at times it can be difficult not to unintentionally offend - you never know if you're conversing with a competent professor or a spotty teenager who left school at 14!

So, my apologies if I appear to talk down to you or anyone else at times.

One problem I find with the science that we are taught a school is that it's often very simplified, which means that when we need to use it in practice, it all of a sudden becomes far more involved than we were led to believe. For example, we are told that we get oxygen and hydrogen evolved at the electrodes if we run a current through water containing an electrolyte. But the full equations for the reactions of both the water and the electrolyte are not usually given - and who of us was told why the electrolyte did not react at the electrodes? We are simply told that the electrolyte allows more current to flow.  In truth, even this simple electrolysis is far more complex than that.

Meyer supposedly had all the current limiting devices to reduce current through the whole cct including the wfc. In reality I can't see this being the case.  The current can still be limited through the electronics even if we have high current surges through the water, because we should have an excess of charges on the electrodes and current limiting provided by the inductor.

The relationship between current, voltage and charge here can also be difficult to grasp.  It is possible to put a high voltage pulse across the capacitor, yet have no charge on the plates, because the capacitor will take a given time to charge up.  The voltage given on any capacitor indicates the point at which dielectric breakdown is a strong possibility, so in theory, we could cause dielectric breakdown with next-to-no current flow at all!  Remember that in a normal capacitor no current actually flows between the plates.

This I think is the essence of the Meyer system.  My problem with this is that when the dielectric (or water) does break down under the potential, then there is little or no current flow through the wfc to cause ionisation.  But then Meyer, I don't think, ever mentions ionisation as the cause of gas production.  Maybe it is all about breaking the clumping bonds of water with a very high potential and we're all coming at this from the wrong angle with conditioning and all. Problem here tho' is that I'm not sure the science to explain the reaction exists - at least in any written form.

Probably pay to keep an open mind on all this and not be too single-minded on any aspects. Afterall, the best the conditioning seems to offer is 3x Faraday. Meyer supposedly had 10x this.

[pcmd]

Farrah,

I am really enjoying the thread that is going here.  I just popped over to Youtube and watched the Peter Lindemann Video and its is all starting to make sense to me.  I could not see how Meyer claimed his circuit was resonant.  The fact the there is a Diode in the output section of his supposedly resonant LC circuit totally negates any possibility of a cascade being formed.  I agree with Peter that this is a fairly standard DC charging of a dielectric media that achieves a catastrophic failure.  It may be that Stan Meyer may have believed that he was causing the water or the electrodes to achieve some sort of resonance that caused the extreme breakdown of the molecular bond of the H and O.  Or  he may have known all along but was spinning a tale for our amusement. 

Here is the definition of Dielectric Failure: The failure of an element in a dielectric circuit that exists when an insulating element becomes conducting. 
In the case of the Meyer WFC the pulsing DC waveform gradually increases the potential difference in the capacitor to such a level that the dielectric fails and a enormous amount of current is generated.  This in turn liberates massive quantities of H and O.  The duty cycle adjustment allows for the recharging of the capacitor.  I will have to do some serious testing to see the same results but I feel I now know a lot more about the Meyer design.  Don't get me wrong this is a absolutely ingenious way to generate large quantities of H/O.  What I am trying  to focus on is how to regulate the gas production in a cct like this. 

Also I found a great explanation about the charging effects of the WFC . 
Here is the URL.  http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/ATG/lo-iestru.html


PCMD

[Tacmatricx]

Hey Pcmd,

Please take everything I say as a grain of salt as I have yet to actually build a cell and test it but here are my observations this far:

1) If resonance has nothing to do with gas production, why does every cell have a very specific maximum gas production frequency?

2) If resonance has nothing to do with it, why does every WFC have different ideal frequencies? I notice that the tube lengths are different in most of these setups.

3) if resonance has nothing to do with it, why did Meyers cut pitch slots in his outer tubes to raise their pitch to match that of the inner tubes?

These are only my observations and are not an attack on your ideas... If you have thoughts on these to correct me I would be happy to be corrected?

Thanks,

[HeairBear]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to be confused with heavy water.

The hardness of the water results in a calcification

Hard water is water that has a high mineral content (contrast with soft water). Hard water usually consists of calcium (Ca2+), magnesium (Mg2+) ions, and possibly other dissolved compounds such as bicarbonates and sulfates. Calcium usually enters the water as either calcium carbonate (CaCO3), in the form of limestone and chalk, or calcium sulfate (CaSO4), in the form of other mineral deposits. The predominant source of magnesium is dolomite (CaMg(CO3)2). Hard water is generally not harmful.

The simplest way to determine the hardness of water is the lather/froth test: soap or toothpaste, when agitated, lathers easily in soft water but not in hard water. More exact measurements of hardness can be obtained through a wet titration. The total water 'hardness' (including both Ca2+ and Mg2+ ions) is read as parts per million or weight/volume (mg/L) of calcium carbonate (CaCO3) in the water. Although water hardness usually only measures the total concentrations of calcium and magnesium (the two most prevalent, divalent metal ions), iron, aluminium, and manganese may also be present at elevated levels in some geographical locations.


The most abundant isotope, 40Ca, has a nucleus of 20 protons and 20 neutrons. This is the heaviest stable isotope of any element which has equal numbers of protons and neutrons. In supernova explosions, calcium is formed from the reaction of carbon with various numbers of alpha particles (helium nuclei), until the most common calcium isotope (containing 10 helium nuclei) has been synthesized. Calcium is the seventh most common element, by mass, in Earth's oceans.
..................................................................................

Chemically calcium is reactive and moderately soft for a metal (though harder than lead, it can be cut with a knife with difficulty). It is a silvery metallic element that must be extracted by electrolysis from a fused salt like calcium chloride.[1] Once produced, it rapidly forms a grey-white oxide and nitride coating when exposed to air. It is somewhat difficult to ignite, in character rather like magnesium, but when lit, the metal burns in air with a brilliant high-intensity red light. Calcium metal reacts with water, evolving hydrogen gas at a rate rapid enough to be noticeable (unlike its sister magnesium) but not fast enough at room temperature to generate much heat. Part of the slowness of the calcium-water reaction results from the metal being partly protected by insoluble white calcium hydroxide. In water solutions of acids where the salt is water soluble, calcium reacts vigorously.

Calcium salts are colorless from any contribution of the calcium, and ionic solutions of calcium (Ca2+) are colorless as well. Many calcium salts are not soluble in water. When in solution, the calcium ion to the human taste varies remarkably, being reported as mildly salty, sour, "mineral like" or even "soothing." It is apparent that many animals can taste, or develop a taste, for calcium, and use this sense to detect the mineral in salt licks or other sources. [2]. In human nutrition, soluble calcium salts may be added to tart juices without much effect to the average palate.

Calcium is the fifth most abundant element by mass in the human body, where it is a common cellular ionic messenger with many functions, and serves also as a structural element in bone. It is the relatively high atomic-numbered calcium in the skeleton which causes bone to be radio-opaque. Of the human body's solid components after drying (as for example, after cremation), about a third of the total mass is the approximately one kilogram of calcium which composes the average skeleton (the remainder being mostly phosphorus and oxygen).

I wonder if this white coating has any piezoelectric properties?


Cheers!

[Farrah Day]

Hi PC

glad to hear you're coming on board. Hopefully we'll be comparing notes shortly.

That link you provided above is a good example of just how more involved this electrochemistry we are dealing with can be.  It is plain to see - and as I mentioned above - that it is all too easy to over simplify things.  Once we delve properly into the atomic chemistry and physics involved, things are clearly more complicated.  Add to this the fact that most of us are amateurs and the science we are dealing with is not in itself fully understood even by scientists and it's clear we have a lot of hurdles to overcome!

Kator

I've added a photo of the build up on my large test cell.  It is quite a substantial coating and if I look closely I can see that the calcium compound has crystalized somewhat as it has dried.  This gives a rough, uneven appearance to the surface.  The white calcium compound can be seen clearly on the raised centre threaded bar and nut, but it is also coating the cathode side of all the tubes.  This was after just 8 hours at around 0.5 amp, in 2 litre of tap water with a flat teaspoon of calcium carbonate added.   I don't think anyone has achieved this amount of coating at this current in such a short time.  No sign of any flaking, but under the same conditions I can probably create a more stable coating by taking the cell out of the solution after shorter periods of time and letting it dry out more often.

Tac

With reference to your resonance questions, I'd say that it's all down to the fact that the term 'resonance' is a common misnomer.

There can be values and frequencies at which our cells might perform to maximum efficiency, but it need not necessarily be at any resonant frequency.  In our case we might find that a pulsed frequency of, say 14KHz, gated at a particular frequency provides the best results as it creates the right conditions for our purpose.  I think the better term is 'sweet spot'. Simply the pulsed, gated frequency at which all the elements of our wfc's come together to perform to their best.

As every cell would provide a different capacitance, no two cells would have the same optimum working frequency.

I've seen one photo of the cut rectangular slot on one of Meyer's tubes, but given everything we know about Meyer, I'm not inclined to read too much into this at present.  If you wanted the tubes to physically resonate then it would make sense to have the outer tube balanced to the inner so one frequency would resonate both tubes. Problem here is that we once again come to the fact that the cct can't actually resonate. That said, knowing Meyer, it might simply be that he had run out of tubes without the slots!