Meyer type WFC - from design and fabrication to test and development.

[razasunny54]

Just wanted to tell some more points that i observed. If we make the exact Lawton Circuit and probe at the Drain/collector point of the transistor, we dont see any voltage spikes in the range of 700 V but if we take the diode going from Drain to Vcc off and then probe it, we get these spikes. These spikes appear to change with the frequency of our DC pulses. I think these spikes are due to the switching of the transistor. I want to know that if I can create these spikes using 12 V circuit that barely takes any current, could these spikes be used to put in the water cell. I have also measured that the spikes appear even if we dont have an inductor, but they seem to be amplified with the inductor connected from Drain to Vcc. Bifilar works better than toroid or seperate coils. Can we just put these spikes across the cell, this way we dont even need a VIC because we r already getting such high voltage. As u increase the inductance or make a better bifilar coil the spikes should get even higher. We can tune the frequency to resonate the inductor. Lawton said he put the diode to protect the FET, but my circuit works fine without THAT diode. Am I doing it correct or should i put the diode back.

Thanks

[Farrah Day]

Hi Raz

I would expect the cct to work just fine without the diode - just like a car works fine without the airbags.  It simply provides mosfet protection from inductor emf as I pointed out in the quote above somewhere.

[Spewing]

Just wanted to tell some more points that i observed. If we make the exact Lawton Circuit and probe at the Drain/collector point of the transistor, we dont see any voltage spikes in the range of 700 V but if we take the diode going from Drain to Vcc off and then probe it, we get these spikes. These spikes appear to change with the frequency of our DC pulses. I think these spikes are due to the switching of the transistor. I want to know that if I can create these spikes using 12 V circuit that barely takes any current, could these spikes be used to put in the water cell. I have also measured that the spikes appear even if we dont have an inductor, but they seem to be amplified with the inductor connected from Drain to Vcc. Bifilar works better than toroid or seperate coils. Can we just put these spikes across the cell, this way we dont even need a VIC because we r already getting such high voltage. As u increase the inductance or make a better bifilar coil the spikes should get even higher. We can tune the frequency to resonate the inductor. Lawton said he put the diode to protect the FET, but my circuit works fine without THAT diode. Am I doing it correct or should i put the diode back.

Thanks

when the lawton circuit pulses the chokes with 6 volts 1 amp the voltage to the fuel cell is steped down, thats what chokes do. if you do not use the diode you will be running on lower voltage and lower amps than what you're using to drive the chokes with, so you loose.

chokes are capacitors, they hold a charge and they discharge. the discharge wave form of a choke is identical to a capacitor discharge wave form, its a spike you see then it falls rapidly. if you add a diode as in the lawton pdf then the voltage and amps the cell sees changes if you use the right frequency.

the output to the cell is greater than than the input driving the chokes, what i mean is you may be using 1 watt to power the lawton circuit but the cell see's 2 watts because of the diode and the way it is used, Crowbar. without the crowbar the Back Emf will be lost and not used, Free power gone! But if you use the crowbar since inductors change polarity when they're not pulsed the crowbar will switch on and direct the back emf to the wfc, however when the diode switches on it is no longer back emf because it turns in to amps, this is how the cell sees more power in watts than the primary side of the chokes.

the frequency is determined by the chokes, i call it Back Emf Resonance because if you are not on the frequency of the chokes then the back emf will not switch the crowbar diode properly and the emf and fet gate charge time will not be in resonate with one another so you have a loss of power. A 10 NF 103k capacitor works the best with the chokes in daves Pdf, you do not need the primary 555 timer circuit only the secondary, the primary makes it worse.

the output wave form is a square wave with ringing at the top, the circuit can only do so much and thats it.

if you compare the lawton waveform to the alternator wave form you will see that lawton gets 1 square wave with his circuit when tuned properly, that is 1 square wave with ringing at the top.

the alternator as crazy as it sounds but yes the out put is a square wave and not a sine wave. the square wave output is in 3 phases, at the top of each square wave you see harmonics, not ringing like dave got with his circuit.

[razasunny54]

Hi Spewing,

           are you recommending to use just the "Faster Frequency Circuit" (Right side of Lawton) cuz I have had better gas production using the Left Side only, the one with a 1 uF cap on it. I can understand the function of the diode as you are saying that its a feedback to put the back emf to the cell, but I have only removed the diode, I am still connecting the drain point to the cell but directly or Ill put one more choke there. The only thing I saw was that If I have that cap there the 700 V peaks dont come. I know how daves cricuit would cause a square wave with ringing on top, but that would be no where close to 700 V. What my theory is, you remove the diode and when the input DC pulse switches off and the FET has to switch as well therefore for a VERY SHORT time the impedance of drain and source becomes like a open circuit but the inductor still trys to push current thru it because its charged and has no where else to go therefore we get a REALLY HIGH VOLTAGE spike everytime that switch happens. This voltage is much higher than what we would get by just ringing and if we are just trying to cause potential on the water cell and not current then these peaks would be ideal. Please let me know what you think, I will do more testing today. The only problem is that, when I connect them to my cell, I get the same peaks on both terminals therefore the AC swings dont do much to help gas production. Therefore, if we had two exact same circuits but one is inverted again and fed into a different MOSFET the peaks would occur at a different point in time and feed those to the cell mayb it will produce more gas as now the cell terminals are recieveing shocks of +700 V and -700V. I will do testing today and post my progress, I can still produce pretty good gas at 12V and 0.5 Amps (Not as much as Lawton/Ravi but good) when I tune my circuit right but Im aiming to get even better production and my plates have only been conditioned for a few hours. Please let me know what you guys think. I will try to post pics and videos of my setup.

Thanks

[Farrah Day]

Interesting experiment today.

I built a simple car ignition coil pulsing cct and decided to pulse some 10-15Kvolts across my small test cell.

My little pulse cct produces a square wave that fires the ignition coil. I tested it on my scope to check it was oscillating ok then connected the car coil. I had attached my small PSU set at 12 volts to the unit, but once switched on, the current limiter cut in limiting the current to 600mA.  The result of this was that the supply voltage drops to between 7 and 8 volts. Nevertheless, the coil still fired across a 5-6mm gap. So I was interested to see what would happen when I placed the high voltage pulses across my small test cell.

I've attached a photo of the set up below.

Well, results a little disappointing in that I appeared to get absolutely nothing happening. No sign of any gas production whatsoever.

My water is deionised, so I decided to add some sodium sulphate in order to provide some current carrying ions. Still nothing, no gas at all.

I wanted to check that I had this high voltage there across my cell (2mm gap incidentally), but I've got no HV probes or a meter that will take 15Kv. With the power still on, via insulating cable ties, I carefully lifted the cell out of the water to see if a spark would now arc across the cell... nothing!

Tommorow I want to repeat the experiment with a my large PSU to see what happens when the current is not limited, but here's the interesting thing:

With my test cell in the water, I disconnected the +ve wire of the cell that is attached the the HV of the coil. This meant that I effectively had another spark gap in the cct. Turning the unit back on, I now cautiously moved the detached wire towards the HV coil terminal and found to my surprise that my spark was back - jumping the full 5-6mm gap.

Now, I'm not quite sure what is happening here because my pulses are obviously passing across my submerged electrodes, though I'm not getting any gas so I would assume extremely little current must be flowing.  That said, my PSU is limiting at 600mA and I have an arc jumping a 5-6mm gap.

I re-did the above test again using clean deionised water and got the same result.

There must be a logical explanation, but I must say that I'm a little puzzled by this at present - need to give this some thought.