Some thoughts on how the TPU might work.

[otto]

Hello all,

@Geoff

thanks for your kind words.

Im burning my fingers almost every day. You know how it is: a lot of wires arround the TPU and it happens that I touch 1 of them....

Yes, there is a vibration at, say, 5kHz and again yes, there are a few ways to build a TPU. We know about the open - 4 segments - 2 metal plates as collectors or something like this and in the videos we could see TPUs builded in other ways...

You mentioned that you want to build something much simpler. HA!!! The TPU is sooooooo simple to build. Forget about loooooooong coils and such crap. The TPU needs SHORT coils. In this moment I really dont know how short but on Monday, I hope, I will know it.

As our master said: just a wire for a collector and another wire wound arround this collector and I say not too much wire. Its easy. The RF is not such a problem. You have only to be carefull.

Otto

[BEP]

@dfro

Your knowledge does not sound as weak as you suggest it might be. Agreed, there must be at least three major types given by SM. The confusion is where his words do not seem to apply to any specific type. When his words fit one device it seams to be opposite in another device.

Since my short time trying to build each of the types (as I have been able to understand them) I have come up with nothing worth sharing on this forum. Why? Because words are useless without graphics and drawings. The photos supplied are incredibly poor quality.

Otto seems to be one of the most dedicated to finding the answer. He has shared much but also had results worth sharing. If nothing else I will have learned a great deal since joining this forum. I must say I thought my knowledge on these matters was virtually complete when I joined. Now I laugh at myself for such ignorance!

Please, provide a graphic of your posted text. Mistranslation of more words is not going to help here. From your words I think you have a great deal to aid in this quest.

BEP

[otto]

Hello all,

@BEP

today is Monday I this week I will read dfros 2 posts 1000 times, if needed. Try to make a drawing from dfros words. He uses other words for the coils but who cares. Just take your time and think about what this great man said to us.

Its the first time that I have his 2 posts on my PC desktop because you never know.....ha,ha.

BEP, lets analyse every word of this guy. Lets try to make a drawing, let us finnish the game!! .....my feeling....

@All,

this weekend I wanted to work on my TPU but I made something totally different: I made a 50 turns control coil (like the ECD, for learning purposes only) and a Mobius as collector, just 1 turn and then 5 turns and ended with 9 turns for the collector.

I knew it already but wanted to see it again: the more turns for a collector, the more shit, oh, sorry, the more hash you have in your windings. The hash adds or multiplies in the collector windings and thats logic.

Then I was thinking about cutting the lenght of my collector to get the right frequency. But whats the working frequency of a 6" TPU?? Nobody knows! What to do in such a situation??

I used 245kHz like the 15" TPU and the other frequency was from 10 - 70kHz. The 3rd frequency I had to tune so I had just 2 frequencies to play.

I saw that the 245kHz are OK but I had to tune  the other 2 frequencies. Result: with a magnet on my controls everything was vibrating at say 5 - 6kHz. How???

Its easy. A long time I know that at a high frequency of arround 250kHz I have a lot of noise on my radio. I was all the time ignoring this frequency because I didnt want the noise on my radio. I was wrong!!

At this frequency happens the noise. Its 245kHz. Im talking of an exact frequency. Now, the next frequency should be 35kHz. Yes, with this 2 frequencies I can see that sine waves begins to form and my power supply starts to pump. On the radio is a lot of noise. But when the PS pumps I have also a vibration of my control coil!!! and the Mobius!!!!

Dfro said that a coil is needed for stability. On Friday I didnt understand what he meant but today I know it: the stability of the 5 or 6kHz vibration. My vibration is unstable, a lot of noise on my radio, the PS pumping.....remember SMs words? The worst frequency scenario!!

For the guys that dont know about and for what we need a vibration: when I tipp with my finger on my newest TPU I can clearly see that the little vibration causes big kicks in my coils. Of course, NOTHING connected to the coils, no PS and no oscillators.

This means that a vibration gives us a lot of extra energy.

While I was building my little coil setup I had my scope connected on my TPU. Every thing was disconnected but the coils connected. What I saw: just little signals, not worth to mention, in mVs. Then I saw this signals growing, getting bigger and bigger and then a "bang". There was a kick, like a cap was dischargend and the signals again, little, not worth to mention and this "game" repeated again and again....The kick was a big one, in volts.

As I didnt even touch my newest TPU this week, if I have the needed time, I want to wind at least 1 additional feedback coil to have 2 of them. I want to use my knowledge that I got this weekend and see what will happen.

Yes, I know that with only 1 little ECD coil it was impossible to get a runaway but with a TPU and this crazy frequencies and crazy pumping its really a mess because a runaway happens sooooo fast you cant imagine.

It seems that this was a looooong post. Sorry guys.

Otto

[BEP]

@Otto

I hope I'm not offbase here but here goes:

The speed of sound in a fine stranded copper conductor depends upon a lot of things but basically it is around 2300 m/s for highly flexible wire that is fairly free to move(vibrate).

Adding more loops in the collector causes slower current as flow velocity is highly dependent upon creation of the mag field created by current flow. The more turns = slower current flow + increased hash (turn to turn inductance).

Vibration frequency is also dependent upon flexibility

Vibration is from - a current carrying wire in a magnetic field experiences a force at right angles to both the field and current direction. (magnetostrictive LIKE effect but for any conductor)

How many control coils will you finally have and will they be driven in quadrature? With this I can suggest low and high frequencies. The best I can say of the third frequency is it will be the result of the other two.

As an example: If you will have four control coils (2 sets driven in quadrature- push-pull or totem-pole) I would suggest trying 87.5kHz and 612.5 kHz. Depending upon structure the collector should vibrate in the 3k and 5k range with a difference of vibration frequencies of 1800Hz.

I could go on but I think I already look like a fool.

The above is extrapolated from what I am seeing on my current coil set (NO OU - Yet!)

[otto]

Hello all,

@BEP

the last few days Im playing with my little ECD like control coil connected to a 1 turn Mobius and then to a 5 turn Mobius.

To be honest I was wrong: the hash is the same in 1 turn or in 5 turns of a Mobius. I dont know why. Its not logic because the hash should be added or multiplied in the near windings of a Mobius but....I really dont know whats going on.

You say more windings = slower current + increased hash. Hmmmm .....NO!!

I saw another effect: imagine my 3 oscillators can give me a nice square wave at 100kHz but everything over this frequency is a big nothing. I mean, the signals - square waves are a s..t.

Now imagine when I pulse my TPU I can see veeeeery nice kicks at 250kHz and much more!!! They are perfect.

It looks like the kicks are speeded up in the coils.

About the frequencies I use: just 245kHz and a lower kHz frequency. When I mix this 2 frequencies I have almost a runaway because my Ampermeter on my power supply jumps from 2 - 5A. But this jumping of the Ampmeter needle is at low frequencies.
In this moment when a pumping starts I can hear on my radio a very fast "knocking" signal. My magnetic needle hanging over my TPU or bulb was jumping....and I see that a sinus is forming but as I have only 1 ECD coil I hope I cant have a runaway.

This morning I connected just 1 cap into my setpu and saw that the kicks are now sine waves. I did it a few months ago and it was OK. My favorite was a 22nF/400V cap.

How many control coils?

Just look at dfros description: he mentioned 3 controls, I think and then he says about the magnetic flux at 90?.
I was a long time thinking about my runaway. How did I connect my controls? It seems that I had 4 controls connected in series. 3 coils pulsed and the result was "collected" in the 4th control. Im not sure.

I will try to post a picture.