Muller Dynamo

[Thaelin]

Hi Khabe:
   This design has been around for a few years. I even conversed with him a bit. He did a hell of a build and then went silent. His coils were small and heavy wire size. I did have all the build info but lost it to a HD crash.

thay

Edit:   Should have waited a few more messages as they said the same. Interesting that I conversed with Bill and didn't even realize it.

I have no idea who is this guy (or these guys) but building description is much better
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70E0Q_pCB-4
http://wn.com/FreeEnergyLT  ... perhaps they accidentally visited London ...like unfair competition
http://overunity.ifrance.com/
cheers,
khabe

[redrichie]

Looks like there are mags on the bottom coils.  But not mirrored.

[e2matrix]

Hi redrichie,  good to see you over here too on this one.  Sorry to have to ask but just trying to understand all info that comes up on this.  When you said they aren't mirrored I'm not sure what that means.  Is it that the bottom ones are not totally in line with top or that not all top coils have magnets?  Romero did say he had run out of magnets and didn't have enough for all the coils. 

[Charlie_V]

Hi Guys,

So I watched Lidmotor's video and I also find it interesting.  After thinking about it, isn't this the reverse of how a cargo train works?  In trains, a diesel engine powers a generator which charges batteries which then run the motors in the wheels.  Here a source (in case of Lid's video it was a super cap) powers a motor which turns a generator which powers a light source.

Electric machine cogging isn't our problem though because you can use an air core (which has zero cogging) and you still have back torque which puts a drag on the rotor.  In Lid's video he's using LED's which require extremely small amounts of energy to light up.  It would be interesting to load the output to a variable resistor and plot the power versus load.

I think my biggest beef with this motor in general is how it is negating the back torque of the generating coils.  I don't see how back torque is negated at all.  Sure you can put coils between magnets and use expensive core materials.  Sure you can reduce cogging by having an uneven coil/magnet ratio.  None of that will help if the generating coil's put a drag on the rotor (which they will most definitely do in this arrangement). 

If I'm understanding the logic in the design, the driving coil acts to reduce a stationary magnetic field which repels against the rotor.  You turn on the drive coil, stationary PM field goes away, rotor moves into position, you turn the drive coil off and the stationary PM pushes the rotor away.  Assuming I got this right, the only way I see the machine working is if the pushing the of stationary PM is greater than the energy it takes to neutralize its field (aka the coil can negate the stationary PM with less energy than the stationary PM's push). 

I guess the current thinking is that with the right permeability (and reduced cogging) this may be possible?  However, it has always been my experience that to reduce a PM's flux requires a magnetic field of equal intensity.  So the coil would have to generate a field of the same magnitude (and these are neodymium mangets which are really strong).  Most ferrous materials have a hysteresis loop so its going to take a little more energy to reverse that field (otherwise a large air coil with a lot of current).  I know that some ferrofluids have almost a linear hysteresis curve - but their permeability is crappy.  I'm not trying to be a naysayer here, I'm just trying to think about the system from a logical standpoint.  I really hope it works.

[e2matrix]

Charlie_V,  It is good to use logic.  However if you are basing your logical conclusions on traditional education in magnetic and motor theory than it may not apply unless you assume we already know everything about this world and physics that can possibly be known.  I don't think we are there yet.  In fact a long way from being there.  So things can occur that we don't yet understand and that's why experimenters and tinkerer's like RomeroUK and Bill Muller just to name a few will stumble on something that just does not yet fit what we currently know.