Power ratio over one

[handyguy1]

Hay Stefan:

I just posted 2 photos at ou-builders. Can't seem to do it here. As soon as you tube is back up I will upload another video.
If anyone has a magnet and coil setup and LEDs as the load, would you try adding a bulb or some other resistive load in series and let me know what happens.

[Chad]

Hi David

if the secondary magnets caused the axle to increase speed wich inturn increased the power in the input coil....how does adding secondary magnets force the axle to increase speed?.

I noticed that the magnets had to be placed at around 45 degrees in relation to the main output coil magents to be effective the most, if not the device would stall, so could the secondary magnets be providing lift wich reduces friction by reducing the effects of gravity..or may there be a more complex reason?.

[gyulasun]

Hi David,

LEDs can be considered as nonlinear resistors (more precisely as nonlinear impedances but their self capacitance and inductance surely can be neglected at the low frequencies of 2-10Hz your setup operates at).

The strange thing when you use LEDs in series as a load is that current can only flow through them when your induced voltage becomes higher than the summed up forward voltages of each LED.  Under this voltage level there is practically no current, not even in the forward direction and above this level current suddenly starts flowing. LEDs have a dynamic resistance above their forward voltage area which can be max a few Ohms (1-4 Ohms, almost a short circuit for a voltage source) so if there is no any other practical series resistance in the circuit (like the coil DC resistance or a bulb etc), the current can be very high and damaging for the diodes if the voltage difference is high between the induced and the summed up forward voltages.

I uploaded here an edited version of Stefan picture logger03.gif on your earlier four channel voltage measurements.
I drew another line three under the line four how I think the shape of the current (or the voltage drop across a resistor) will more or less look like.  I took an example of 6 LEDs in series, to correspond to your earlier 25.805V peak output voltage (where the cursor is).  If we suppose a 3.1V forward voltage for each diode, then current will be able to flow only if the induced voltage gets above this 6*3.1=18.6V.

I hope my drawing in the picture is understandable.  I miss this shorter-than-half-wave pulse shape from your original measurements in your lines three and I think you can produce it when using a 5 Ohm resistor (or higher) instead of the 0.05 Ohm.

Now I think it is more understandable how tricky situation is created when we use LEDs (i.e. nonlinear resistors) as loads for an AC generator (but the dynamic resistance holds true at DC too, of course) and wonder why Ohm's law is strange in their case.  This also explains I think why you feel no or only a little drag by your hand when you check induction with LED loads,  for load current can only flow when the induced voltage exceeds the summed up forward voltages.

David, I do not imply you have no higher output power than input,  all I mean here is I disagree with your output current waveform received on your line three (it is mainly buried in noise and we do not see voltage (hence current) values you are to multiply to get the output power.

I invite Stefan or any other member here to comment these things.

rgds, Gyula

[handyguy1]

Hay Chad:
The configuration we are using is a N-S. I noticed that the noise level went down, and the primary magnets didn?t rock back and forth as far. I believe that the secondary magnet arrangement attracts the primary magnet. Its that simple!

[handyguy1]

Hay Gyulasun:

I believe that that waveform you are referring to is with a 100k ohm resistor. The device works the same with LEDs or a resistor, Or using both at the same time. I understand what you are saying about the loading. The part that confuses me is that anything else placed in series has no effect.

Your input is valuable. If you like I'll send another attachment using just LEDs, and I'll put 1.5 volts to it so the readings are higher. I'll use a cap on the output so the wave form is a little cleaner.

I really appreciate your input!

David