Working Magnetic Motor on you tube??

[hydrocontrol]

I am not sure that many people are aware of this but the ultimate setup of Al's + OC's motor seemed vaguely familiar. I started looking around a while back I and came across this setup that CLaNZeR (Sean) tried duplicating last year.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/kissPM.htm

I did mention this to CLaNZeR and he wrote back "Too much friction using Polycarbonate as gears really".  Too bad as it looks like the next step in order to get perfect timing.

[FunkyJive]

I am not sure that many people are aware of this but the ultimate setup of Al's + OC's motor seemed vaguely familiar. I started looking around a while back I and came across this setup that CLaNZeR (Sean) tried duplicating last year.

http://www.overunity.org.uk/kissPM.htm

I did mention this to CLaNZeR and he wrote back "Too much friction using Polycarbonate as gears really".  Too bad as it looks like the next step in order to get perfect timing.

Not knowing how much friction would generally be permissible with all those contributory synchronised stators, I can't help but wonder whether those lightweight RC helicopter tail-drive belts and off-the-shelf toothed shafts could be put to good use for something like this.

All the stator cogs could use a suitable toothed shaft of any reasonable size (as the rotors only need to maintain synchronicity) so one peripheral belt would sort that out, thereby requiring one further belt (or even a single meshed cog drive) between the main rotor and one of the stators.

Just a thought


FunkyJive

[Omnibus]

@FunkyJive,

You mean something like this: http://youtube.com/watch?v=wcy0tedYBMg, That's the most interesting rendition so far of the well known idea we're trying to reproduce. The difference in our case now is that there's someone real who's willing to talk to the replicators to a certain extent.

And, note, the magnets in that video are ceramic and not neos, if we heed Stefan's concern about the degradation of the neos.

[Jdo300]

Here's a simple analysis (by using FEMM) of the torque of the rotor covering 45 degrees of the motion (then it repeats itself because of the symmetry).

When the fulcrum of the rotor and of the stator are connected with a line, and one of the magnets on the rotor is perpendicular to this line, the stator position shows a difference of about 25 degrees in respect of that line (as in the third Alsetalokin video). This fact is included in the simulation (visible here: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1060658/oc_mpmm_magnetic_simulation/).

The simulation data and graph are included in the attached Excel document, and they show a total positive torque (it should be 0 if there were no self-rotation!). 

Sorry for any mistake I did! 

Hi Niente,

There is a problem with your simulation setup. If you look at the square boundary around your rotor disk, you will notice that all of the field lines intersect the boundary at 90 degrees. This shows one of two things. First, the boundary is way to close to the problem region. This distorts the fields and will produce inaccurate results. Secondly, for magnetic simulations, it is best to use a circular boundary and boundary conditions that approximate an infinite problem region to get the most accurate results.

For my simulations, I wrote a simple LUA script that creates a circular boundary of the desired radius and automatically calculates and applies the correct boundary condition for the problem. It also adds a block label set to "Air" for the problem region. Though you will have to go in and set the mesh density to what you want. I have attached the script file below.

Also. I have made a simulation of the rotor disk (to scale) with a single stator magnet for everyone to play around with. I wrote an accompanying script file that will rotate both the rotor and stator magnet either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on the settings in the script. You can set the initial starting angle of the stator and can also change the gear ratio (at the moment it is set to 4:1). It will also print out a data file with torque values at each position of the wheel. You can just copy and paste into Excel and make a graph from there for further analysis. The only thing is I don't set the initial position of the rotor so if the simulation gets stopped for any reason, you'll have to manually select the rotor magnets and rotate them back to the starting position you want. This script file is also included with the simulation file and the boundary setting script. I tried to make it easy to understand but If anyone has any questions don't hesitate to ask.

God Bless,
Jason O

[vipond50]

Here's a simple analysis (by using FEMM) of the torque of the rotor covering 45 degrees of the motion (then it repeats itself because of the symmetry).

When the fulcrum of the rotor and of the stator are connected with a line, and one of the magnets on the rotor is perpendicular to this line, the stator position shows a difference of about 25 degrees in respect of that line (as in the third Alsetalokin video). This fact is included in the simulation (visible here: http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1060658/oc_mpmm_magnetic_simulation/).

The simulation data and graph are included in the attached Excel document, and they show a total positive torque (it should be 0 if there were no self-rotation!). 

Sorry for any mistake I did! 

Hi Niente,

There is a problem with your simulation setup. If you look at the square boundary around your rotor disk, you will notice that all of the field lines intersect the boundary at 90 degrees. This shows one of two things. First, the boundary is way to close to the problem region. This distorts the fields and will produce inaccurate results. Secondly, for magnetic simulations, it is best to use a circular boundary and boundary conditions that approximate an infinite problem region to get the most accurate results.

For my simulations, I wrote a simple LUA script that creates a circular boundary of the desired radius and automatically calculates and applies the correct boundary condition for the problem. It also adds a block label set to "Air" for the problem region. Though you will have to go in and set the mesh density to what you want. I have attached the script file below.

Also. I have made a simulation of the rotor disk (to scale) with a single stator magnet for everyone to play around with. I wrote an accompanying script file that will rotate both the rotor and stator magnet either clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on the settings in the script. You can set the initial starting angle of the stator and can also change the gear ratio (at the moment it is set to 4:1). It will also print out a data file with torque values at each position of the wheel. You can just copy and paste into Excel and make a graph from there for further analysis. The only thing is I don't set the initial position of the rotor so if the simulation gets stopped for any reason, you'll have to manually select the rotor magnets and rotate them back to the starting position you want. This script file is also included with the simulation file and the boundary setting script. I tried to make it easy to understand but If anyone has any questions don't hesitate to ask.

God Bless,
Jason O

Thanks Jason
Best Regards
Bill