A Conversation

[hansvonlieven]

You have to start from the beginning.

A resonant body will accept energy of its own level of resonance and reject energy far removed from its own level of resonance.

It is important to understand this. Now, there is resonance and there is resonance. Take two guitar strings, say one of nylon and one of steel. Now if you tune them both to say A=440 the moment you pluck one the other one will start to resonate if they are in proximity to each other. This is resonance at work they say, but is it?

It does not take a particularly fine musical ear to determine that there is a big difference between the strings as far as sound quality is concerned. The nylon string will be much mellower and the steel string will appear sharp by comparison even though both are tuned to the same pitch.

The reason is simple, the harmonics don't match. Some harmonics will be prominent in the steel string while others are prominent in the nylon.

Perfect resonance is achieved when all harmonics resonate in unison. This is very difficult to do. Keely spent a life time trying to get there, he created some monumental devices, but could never get to the point where he had control enough to make it commercially viable.

For those of you wanting to learn more about this and Keely, feel free to use my web site http://keelytech.com You will find much information on resonance, harmonics and Keely which is not available elsewhere.

I am not given to esoteric speculation. My evaluations and findings are from the viewpoint of a conventional, albeit open minded, engineer.

Enough for now before I start rambling.

Hans von Lieven

[sm0ky2]

Lets look at a piece of electricity of finite size. we'll use DC current for this example for simplification.

as it passes through a molecule of ...    lets say Copper, this "electric particle" has an effect on the copper, as it pass through it.  this effect is the same, wether there is one copper molecule, or 30 trillion.


now,, it would make sense that if the electric particle has an effect on the copper, that the copper should have an equal and opposite effect on the electricity. - i.e. turning it into heat and magnetism - and thus some of its energy is consumed while it travels through the copper.

now, when you have equal ammounts of copper that the electricity has to pass through (like a thin wire of 40 turns, and a slightly thicker wire of 20 turns so both have equal mass) - the effect on the electricity you are passing through the wires, should be "identicle" on both sides of the circuit.

[Elvis Oswald]

Thanks for the addition Hans.  I do understand about speculation   and I appreciate your guidance in this - and your open-mindedness.

I'll have to study about what you've said and pose another query to you.

Smokey - let's back up just a bit.  They say electricity is the flow of electrons, it's true.  But, Ed said it was the flow of two types of permanent magnets.
So which one is it - or is it something else?

While we are thinking about transformers... and transferring power across a space... let's also consider a light-bulb.

A light bulb is resistance.  Resistance is what we've harnessed to produce light and heat - and even do calculations with.

But is resistance just electrons being thrown off because they are forced down a smaller pipe?
If you believe that electricity is flowing electrons... or even flowing "aether" then it would make sense.
But what are the other alternatives?

Going back to resonance... two coils with the same size wire - but different turns.  They resonate at different frequencies.  But connect them... what happens?  You have one coil... and it has a resonance different from the two you combined to make it.
And back to what I stumbled through earlier (with no success) - a circuit it made of various configurations of materials that individually have their own resonance.  Connected - these materials form a circuit and the circuit has a resonance.  *Let's exclude dielectric materials for now*

So if we are changing a property of the material by connecting it to other conductive materials... and there is no "flow" - why not chase (for a time) the notion that magnets in a generator are changing a property of the material as well.  -  What if there is no flow?
What if it is merely changing the spin?  Or what if it is changing the speed of the orbiting electrons?  Or both, depending?

Would an increase in speed mean an increase in mass?  Would that create heat?
OR - Would it mean an increase in force that would cause them to orbit higher?  Would that create a vacuum that would draw on some atomic scale power?

My point is that it may not be a flow at all.  It might simply be a change in the behavior of the atomic components of the material.  It may happen instantly when connected to another material.
What exactly it is, I don't know...

[sm0ky2]

Smokey - let's back up just a bit.  They say electricity is the flow of electrons, it's true.  But, Ed said it was the flow of two types of permanent magnets.
So which one is it - or is it something else?

whew.... ok im about to open a can of worms here, that will upset some people. which i try to avoid in this forum, but since you asked. i'll give it to you.

The "electron" - as observed is, in fact the cummulative electromagnetic field, emmited from the N/S pair as they push and pull against one another, producing current.  imagine a two lines of people, facing each other, and they shake hands as they pass.  each time two people shake hands - an electromagnetic sphere generates around them, then quickly dissapates as they let go of each other's hands, and use that "boost" to travel to the next person.   What we see when you observe this occuring using a pick-up coil of sorts, is an electromagnetic sphere,traveling down the wire in tiny hops,  which has been dubbed the "electron".

the same is occuring in a static magnetic field, however the cummulative field is much stronger and we cannot detect the "electrons".  these pulses are constricted very closely within the lines of flux because of the cumulative field strength working against the "handshake". Such that there is almost no magnetic variation over time outside of the lines of flux. What this means to us, is that electricity does not induce in the wire unless the lines of flux themselves are moving through the wire. This is observed in practice ( creating electrical resistance in a wire by inducing an opposing magnetic field) however i feel that the current theory used to describe this behavior is a bit misconstrued.

[sm0ky2]

What if it is merely changing the spin?  Or what if it is changing the speed of the orbiting electrons?  Or both,

That is actually very close to how i describe the process of "induction"




each atom has its own magnetic field (and resonance).

a substance made up of many atoms/ molecules  will have a "cummulative" resonance, based on the number of molecules/atoms and their cummullative fields acting upon one another.

when you combine another substance (and subsequently its resonance) with the first substance, their combined  magnetic fields (and resulting resonance) will dominate.
in paramagnetic materials the atomic fields are "easy" to manipulate, and they line up while in the influence of a magnetic field - when that field goes away, and angular velocity of each atom takes over and the cummulative field becomes disarrayed.

in magnetic materials the atomic fields are "medium - like a semiconductor" - such that you can chance the cummulative field, but when the dominant field goes away, the atomic fields maintain the field imparted upon them. - over time individual atomic fields 'wander' on occasion, causing a depletion in the cumulative magnetic field.

in a non-magnetic material - the atomic fields are so strong, and so complex that an influencing magnetic field cannot change their orientation - instead they fight each other, which creates a 3rd field (being the cumulative between the two) that resonates around the non-magnetic material- in the forms of electromagnetism. also this "fighting" creates heat and the force we know as electricity. - you move the fields it forces this electric potential to move as a current.