Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[aether22]

I'm not crazy about the quote function for a few reasons for more involved back and forth, so I'll use colour again, old text in grey.


No offence aether22 but most of your theories seem to come from the aether!
For a person who hasn't yet succeeded in creating the effect, you sure seem to have a lot of FACTS up your sleeve! 
If you mean about inductance that's basic general stuff and not specialized to the effect

When I first came to this thread I said the effect was due to a phase change in the counter mmf to induction mmf relationship. But I never detailed the reasons, which are very simple and explainable with conventional theory.

If you bothered to check the last link I posted, you will see that induced current lags voltage.
Or if I bothered to know anything about electricity, yeah I've known that for well over a decade.

Here it is again. http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/electric/phase.html

The voltage (pressure) is produced by the passing magnets (changing pressure), and manifests as current in the coils when there is a load. This load forms part of the impedance (Z) triangle of RLZ in the phasor diagrams shown. When you increase the load (lower the resistance) the phase angle increases.
Counter MMF is produced by the current in the coil, and it also arises out of phase with the coil current that is producing it.

If I understand what you are saying here, then the magnetic field produced by the generator coil is out of phase with the current that creates that magnetic field, the real current consisting of moving electrons. (not fictional conventional current)
Now there is a way for the moving charges and the magnetic field to be noticeably out of phase but only if you are a VERY long way from a very swiftly accelerating and decelerating charge, it's called light or radio waves.

And since you do not mean that then let me assure you, you are confused on this point, but hopefully I misunderstand what you are saying or you typed something you didn't mean to. (which is going around)


Conventionally speaking, counter mmf is said to be 180 degrees out of phase and is therefore oppositional to the inducing MMF. In reality no inductor is perfect, and the phase is more likely to be between 170 - 179 degrees out of phase depending on the inductors characteristics.

Yes

When there is a load placed on the coil, the phase angle of the coil current increases as the resistive load decreases towards S/C.
The resulting counter mmf  phase angle changes with respect to the inducing MMF. As the counter MMF approaches 90 degrees out of phase with the inducing MMF it approaches zero opposition.

I do not believe that is possible.
If you have almost no load the induced voltage is at 90 degrees and hence so is the infinitesimal current.
This I found when I first hooked up a dual channel Oscope to the pri and sec of a transformer (secondary was OC) over ten years ago. And it makes sense if you look at how the 'lines' of magnetic force cut the wires.

However and it is going to appear that I am contradicting what I have said about inductance here but I am not, the inductance of the coil stops this. Let's look at a transformer.
As the magnetic field from the primary establishes it's self going from zero to something it induces in the secondary a voltage that pushes electrons in the secondary such that it produces the opposite or repelling magnetic field. If the primary get's to it's maximum current and the backs off the secondary finds a voltage induced that pushes charges in the same direction (as the primary), the observation made is that the secondary is induced in such a way as to oppose any changes in flux from the primary.

However just because the voltage induced from the primary has changed direction does not mean the current can since the secondary has established it's own magnetic field and it can't just collapse it, so unless the secondary creates a very tiny MMF compared to the primary instead of the current reversing it simply starts dropping as the primary does. (although if the primary established a magnetic field, held it up there until the secondaries magnetic field collapsed and then went down then you would have a weird looking 90 deg phase, although this does not otherwise have any relevance with anything else in this message)

Going off on a tangent (If you follow me you may get lost): So it acts to create both a zero net change and zero net field, if the primary and secondary are a single bifilar coil (and if the secondary is shorted and low resistance and the primary current limited by an external inductor) then there is indeed no magnetic field created by either and no field is detectable but any normal means. (though in reality there is slightly more current in the primary since nothing's perfect so a tiny net field
Returning from tangent:

The current in the secondary will lag the current in the primary by precisely 90 degrees if it has no self inductance (impossible) and by precisely 180 degrees if it needs no voltage. (Possible if you use a superconductor, also 180 degrees means the primary or rotor loses no energy although it is only possible to get 180 degrees perfectly if the secondary has no resistance, actually this is important and I will talk about it later)

If you are getting 90 degrees with current then something super strange is happening, and that would also be Free Energy. It would pretty much mean that the secondary had no self inductance, now if the secondary has a tiny current then it could lag by say 91 degrees but that would not be FE, a little lag means a little loss from a little bit of energy generated.



Frequency plays an important role, because the X_L of the inductor increases with frequency, so the current phase angle will also increase with it.

Incorrect, as the frequency of the generator coil changes so does the rotors frequency, both MMF's keep pace.  Unless you have some inductance outside of the rotors EMF possibly.
Any number of turns with any inductance can be used at any frequency, normally high inductance with high frequency blocks but not when it is generated in the inductor, as the self inductance changes so does the received inductance.

Whether the counter MMF phase change can be pushed below 90 degrees and produce additional torque, (above the torque with no coil setup present) as Thane says his setup has done, is still open to question to me.

There is much supporting evidence that Thanes effect is on the motor (coupler, torque measurements), and there is also evidence that it is not at the generator. (inability to accelerate beyond the motors top speed despite the effect working near the top speed)

It can only be accepted as proof if others are able to replicate this one particular claimed aspect of Thanes setup.

In the meantime, I'm still impressed with Nali2001's results, which showed clearly that HV coils are not a pre requisite for acceleration and practical electrical O/P at the same time from a single coil.

Cheers

And with that I add something else to the mix as previously mentioned.
As I have already mentioned, there are a few mundane ways that a shorted generator may speed up, by reducing core losses as a result of greatly reducing the net EMF in the stator core, and by reducing cogging torque.

By Steve's own statements it seems his only works with very poor cores so reducing core losses is a likely majority cause of his acceleration.

But there is another way, and I'll tell you that this issue has caused me much confusion because it's a subtle point, indeed much earlier in this thread I even proposed it is a possible free energy effect. (in transformer form)

If you have a generator like Thanes, at what point will the rotors magnetic field be at maximum strength in the stator?
The answer is easy, when it's poles face is right up against the stators core.

Ok, so if the stators magnetic field is at 180 degrees phase to the rotors then when will it's field be at maximum?
At the same point.

So what was it and what will it be when the rotor magnet is 1 centimeter either side of the stator? In each case the same strength and still the same polarity (repelling) that it is when centered.

So this is the same as swapping the stator coil for north pole magnets with an all N pole rotor, yes there is some cogging torque but no real loss, the rotor loses energy on the approach due to the repulsion but gains it all back as it moves away.

What happens however is the phase is not 180 as you correctly pointed out, it may be 170, 160, 150, or depending on the design and load 179.
But if it is 180 then the rotor (or primary) does not lose any energy at all. (this is possible with superconductors but only because then the secondary uses no energy)

But it is worth noting that pulling more current might not actually mean more energy pulled from the output coil but less and also less lost from the rotor or primary. (note: in a transformer the current will go up but if current limited pri with a dead short sec the voltage in the secondary will drop to a low voltage with a good short and less energy will be used, also it is worth noting that more current through the primary does not mean energy actually used since it could support a high current with theoretically no loss of energy with a perfect tank circuit)

[CRANKYpants]

note: quite a few tiny edits have been made to stop any further misunderstanding, or possibly word games?
Clearly I am bad at saying things clearly but possibly the most simple is:

A22 - FEEL FREE TO USE MY RANT ABOUT PERPETUAL DEBATES ANYTIME.

Thane

[CRANKYpants]

I'm not crazy ...

ARE YOU SURE?

DEFINITION OF CRAZY(INSANE) - is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Thane

[CRANKYpants]

But I'm always on the lookout for new ideas to upgrade old stuff.
Steven

HERE IS SOMETHING YOU MIGHT TRY - IT IS A COIL I STARTED TODAY.

YOU CAN SEE HOW THE ROTOR FLUX FOLLOWS THE PATH THROUGH THE COIL AND AVOIDS THE HIGHER RELUCTANCE "C" AIR GAP.

THE COIL'S BACK EMF INDUCED FLUX TAKES THE LOWER RELUCTANCE FLUX PATH THROUGH THE "C".

CHEERS
Thane

[CRANKYpants]

A22 - FEEL FREE TO USE MY RANT ABOUT THE FUTILITY OF PERPETUAL DEBATES ANYTIME.

Thane

SORRY THIS WAS MEANT TO BE A "MODIFY" NOT A QUOTE ..