Thane Heins Perepiteia.

[aether22]

So, Dude. Help ME understand why you felt justified in implying that the default assumption on Mr. Heins should be retard and/or scam artist based on a bunch of clearly unresearched nonsense. My point is, and always has been, that there is a legitimate process going on here that does not deserve the mindless snark. Even if it all turns to nothing.[/i]"
JustMe

The problem JustMe is that they aren't Skeptics.
That's just what they call themselves but they aren't, I am a skeptic, I doubt something but openly investigate it and let the weight of evidence tell me what's up.(ultimately realizing that my preconceived notions of how things are or aren't are worthless, indeed the core beliefs held by even the wisest in a society are turned upside down every 50-150 years)

But 'Skeptics' aren't actually willing to consider anything outside of their very limited world as even being possible.
They can't explain why this or that is categorically impossible and if it is how they could have the all knowing ability to say so. (knowing what is, is one thing, knowing what is not is quite another)

If you can find me someone who identifies themselves and who others identify as a skeptic and is actually willing to believe that _Blank_ is possible and is willing to give anything like a fair assessment then I'll um, post a video on youtube!

Where is the greatest strength? In insisting that something isn't possible and attacking it ruthlessly by any means and ignoring anything inconvenient.
Or in looking into something you find hard to believe determined to let the evidence speak for it's self no matter how uncomfortable or foreign it may be and no matter how much the former may ridicule you.

Of course I'm preaching to the chior.

[aether22]

Without getting something made for me at my nearest friendly metal worker the largest (single piece rotor) I can do is 29.5cm diameter steel disk.

I can go up to 37CM but what would be 2 pieces, the outside ring and a center disk which was cut out of it to make the ring, I don't have welding equipment so the best I could do would be to attach both to a wooden disk I've got but that would leave a 1mm air gap and I'd be scared that similar to the design of your toroid transormer the flux would be disinterested in jumping the airgap to leave the ring, so I think I'll go for the 29.5cm option unless Thane feels it's worth going large anyway? (but if that doesn't work I'll take luc up of his offer to ship a wheelbarrow wheel)
Though if i want to increase drag I could look at making a prony break (a friction break used to measure motor output)

Not quite sure how I'm going to mount the disk on the shaft, despite having had to do it before I've never found a perfect answer.

Oh and I managed to get to about $20NZD per KG for magnet wire which is a huge improvment, though that's 30% higher than the prices Pulsed_Power quotes the waiting and shipping costs probably make it worth getting locally.

Assuming my rotor (a few mm think steel circle) is Ok and I've got wire sorted then the next thing to tackle is the shaft and electromagnet cores, will be watching the videos again to get a better idea of core sizes.

There is an induction motor I can get for $60, it's 2nd hand. But would want to veriy what type of induction motor Thane is using in his generator demo, shaded pole or split phase? (makes sense if I go to the bother of buying something special for the experiment I get as close as possible, I wish I could have Thanes philosphical view on failed experiments but they just hurt)


If anyone knows of a cheap appliance I could pull an indiction motor out of speak up.

I should have plenty of Neo's but all in all it will likely take about a week+ to get it all put together, mounting various things, waiting for parts to arrive. In fact how much would I have to pay for luc to send a whole working demo unit seriously?

[rukiddingme]

Seems to me that if there is any gain being created, you would get twice the amount of gain if you simply built an identical wheel holding identical magnets positioned on the opposite side of the coils. Meaning that the coils have magnets on both sides. Just saying...

[PulsedPower]

@aether22 

Good to see you found a better source of magnet wire, the price I quoted was couple of years old and the price of copper has been up and down like a yo yo.

As for Thanes motor, while I can't be 100% certain I can come close that Thanes motor is a split phase, it is just a bench grinder,  some are cap start cap run, others are cap start only. I have never seen a shaded pole grinder probably because the torque characteristics are unsuitable, grinders being constant speed variable load machines.. Shaded pole motors are popular on fans because thay are contant torque machines, speed can be varied by changing the input voltage.

Sources for induction motors, bench grinder ( 1/3 to 1hp) pool pumps photo copiers for small split phase motors even old washing machines though many of these are split phase with no capacitor. Many front loaders are cap start cap run with a 4 and a 16 pole motor in the same housing.  The way that Thane is running them needs some form of current control, a 3000 rpm bench grinder motor will smoke very quickly at 70 rpm if there is not current limiting.

For a load, car power steering pumps are good, no magnetics to interfere with the experiment and they can be set up as contant torque or rising torque with RPM, in direct drive they can stall a 1hp motor, a bit of hydraulic hose makes a cheap shaft coupler. Technically they are a compensating vane pump with set pressure around 1500psi Throttle though a valve to load the motor.

[aether22]

Thane, while I can see plenty of reasons not to specify too much in replication of your effect since it would reduce how readily replications can be made (and ultimatly perfect replications are impossible and often unneeded) I believe that a 'Document' should be put together hitting on every factor and indicating in each case how much leway is believed to exist in each part. (Sure, stupid replications will still happen sadly but this should help those commited to doing it right)
Please realize that when people spend money and time with high hope to replicate something only to have it fail possibly because of incomplete info to accuratly replicate, they learn to seek more complete info.

Looking through the skeptic forum I partly agreed with:

4) Heins' support has mostly been "watch these videos," a poor substitue for handing out careful schematics.
5) When others fail to replicate Heins' effect, Heins tells them it's their problem, even before knowing the details.
If Heins is following the typical crackpot script, as the above suggests

Full details of the motor, I just turned down a 1/2hp motor because I was not sure if a 1/4 inch shaft might be too small for the flux/aether/whatever. (now looking at your video again I would estimate the steel rod in the brass coupler is about 1/4 inch)
And there are various types of induction motor, also possibly important? Is not having a magnetic steel face plate on it.
Also replicators should be warned to check with a magnet that the shaft is of a magnetic steel.
Anyone know of a easy way to limit the power of an induction motor? Variacs aren't cheap and my one (actually an autotransformer) is in poor shape)

A PVC non magnetic coupler sounds like a good idea, if you want to expand how you attached that to each shaft.

Were the bearings between the motor and generator made of a steel that is strongly attracted to a magnet? (could they divert the flux? If yours were and it still worked that would be good to know)

In your motor gen setup are there any air gaps from the magnet to the motor shaft? I there are 2 where you insert the steel piece in your brass coupler, what about how your rotor attaches to the shaft?


Anyway here is my crack at it (forgive me for mixing metric and imperial), measurements guessed at from the video.

A 1/4hp induction motor (shaft size down to as low as 1/4in should be fine). With starter cap.
Brass coupler though PVC is more practical, tested with and without a ferrous steel bar 1/4inch dia approx 9cm long, try to keep gaps between bar and shafts as tight as possible.

A bearing to hold the shaft, unknown but possibly best to find one which is at most weakly magnetic.

Rotor is a steel wheelbarrow wheel, about 27cm Diameter, with 6 strong spokes (also appear to be about 1/4 inch).
Magnets are Neodymium. Iron & Boron, about 30mm dia and appear to be about 12mm thick, there are 18 of them in a n/s/n/s pattern.  (It is not known if a solid steel generator rotor would work but it is being tested with no real reason to expect failure)
The greater the diameter the greater the leverage the generator drag has on the motor, if the motor is too near it's max speed little speed increase will be seen, never the less the effect is noticed in the gear reduced universal motors used in drills.  If the motor isn't turning it fast enough it will slow down, there is a feedback effect where the faster the motor turns the greater the back emf, the more the back-emf accelerates the motor.  Tuning the effect to the motor for the most dramatic results may require experimentation and something to control the power going to the motor.]
Beware of excessive cogging torque or hysteresis that may stop the mottor dead immediatly with or without magnetic coupling to the motor.

The core the coil is wound on is made of a magnetic steel, it is not laminated so has high core losses as intendid.
It appears to be about the same diameter as the magnets and looks to be 12cm long.

The coil is of wire assumed to be about 22AWG or in the neighbourhood but it likely is not too important.
The mass of wire probably is more important and it seems to be about 1cm shorter than the core at the back and probably also the front end, it seems to increase the diameter by about another 30mm.

I intend on using 24AWG which is usefully about .5mm thick so that would be about 6,000 turns.

There must be a complete magnetic circuit from the Neodymium magnets to the motor shaft.

These measurements are all estimates and could be easily out +/- 15% possibly even more.
Provided that there is a direct complete ferrious magnetic path to the motor and it isn't running unloaded there is a good chance this effect can be seen on some level with quite different setups other than the one described.
But it is possible that there are unknown conditions the effect may rely on. (the shape of the rotor? The coil core supporting eddy currents? etc...)

A list of ideas for experimentation may well follow.

PulsedPower, that's an excellent info dense post, thanks.