Peter Davey Heater

[storre]

You obviously know a lot about this. I will ask some questions maybe you know the answers.
1) According to one of our friends above the small bell is 1 3/8 inch in diameter (3.5cm) and the bigger bell is 1.75inch (4.5cm). If the small bell vibrates at 1600Hz then the bigger one would vibrate at how many Hz.?
2) How the electrical frequency effects them to vibrate is a mystery to me can you explain?
3) If instead of hitting the bells directly with electricity we hit one of them with a stick and repeat this action like in the old door bells
or telephones would the water still heat?

Regards.

I think they are overall the same size. For example a 1" diameter tube 12" long will vibrate the same frequency as a  3/4" tube of 14" length. Understand I'm just estimating here but it's the overall size that matters. From the bells I saw in the pictures, one was smaller in diameter but slightly longer in length so if they are equal in the overall size then the frequency will be the same. If the smaller bell is really smaller then it's possible he is using the next strongest overtone which would be the 5th interval or dominate of the bigger bell. If the smaller bell is really smaller overall then the frequency would be the ratio of 4:3 or about 2133Hz but I really think they are both 1600Hz

The frequency of 50Hz (in the case of New Zealand mains) is audible but a very low frequency. Humans can here to about 30-40Hz. We don't hear the 50Hz because it would have to be connected to something large that would reverberate that frequency to change it from an electric oscillation to an audible oscillation. Similar to how a speaker works. All we need to know is that 50Hz will create a 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz and also at a lower amplitude other harmonics such as 150Hz etc. If we make a bell that naturally vibrates at one of those frequencies then I believe it will vibrate at it's natural frequency. Imagine a pendulum swinging at a rate of 100 swings per minute. If we push it at 50 times a minute we will use very little energy to keep it going. If we try to push at at 51, 60 or any other non resonant interval then there will be a lot of wasted pushing

I don't believe vibrating the bells physically at 1600Hz would create the same effect. He calls them sonic heaters so I could be wrong but I think the action of the ac voltage at the correct frequency is what causes the heating.

I must say that this is all speculation but it makes sense to me and what I understand about frequency. I'm a sax player like Peter so at least am coming from the same direction ;-)

I'm getting ready to make one of these and am thinking to use cone shapes instead of bells so as to keep the distance between the 2 bells (cones in my case) more consistent. I'm not sure if a bell rings more easily than a cone so that might make a difference. A cone though would be easier to make and could be made longer and just ground down to the right frequency. Also both cones would be exactly the same size but the inner one would stick out.

[NewAge]

OK, how about his new sphere design?



Did he change to spheric design because it is easier to tune a sphere into resonance?
The article says "So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944." Can we find the patent? It would answer many questions.

Read the whole article http://merlib.org/node/5504
Here you can watch a video of his heater in action.

[devrimogun]

I think they are overall the same size. For example a 1" diameter tube 12" long will vibrate the same frequency as a  3/4" tube of 14" length. Understand I'm just estimating here but it's the overall size that matters. From the bells I saw in the pictures, one was smaller in diameter but slightly longer in length so if they are equal in the overall size then the frequency will be the same. If the smaller bell is really smaller then it's possible he is using the next strongest overtone which would be the 5th interval or dominate of the bigger bell. If the smaller bell is really smaller overall then the frequency would be the ratio of 4:3 or about 2133Hz but I really think they are both 1600Hz

The frequency of 50Hz (in the case of New Zealand mains) is audible but a very low frequency. Humans can here to about 30-40Hz. We don't hear the 50Hz because it would have to be connected to something large that would reverberate that frequency to change it from an electric oscillation to an audible oscillation. Similar to how a speaker works. All we need to know is that 50Hz will create a 100Hz, 200Hz, 400Hz, 800Hz, 1600Hz and also at a lower amplitude other harmonics such as 150Hz etc. If we make a bell that naturally vibrates at one of those frequencies then I believe it will vibrate at it's natural frequency. Imagine a pendulum swinging at a rate of 100 swings per minute. If we push it at 50 times a minute we will use very little energy to keep it going. If we try to push at at 51, 60 or any other non resonant interval then there will be a lot of wasted pushing

I don't believe vibrating the bells physically at 1600Hz would create the same effect. He calls them sonic heaters so I could be wrong but I think the action of the ac voltage at the correct frequency is what causes the heating.

I must say that this is all speculation but it makes sense to me and what I understand about frequency. I'm a sax player like Peter so at least am coming from the same direction ;-)

I'm getting ready to make one of these and am thinking to use cone shapes instead of bells so as to keep the distance between the 2 bells (cones in my case) more consistent. I'm not sure if a bell rings more easily than a cone so that might make a difference. A cone though would be easier to make and could be made longer and just ground down to the right frequency. Also both cones would be exactly the same size but the inner one would stick out.

@storre thanks for sharing.
Before starting to build a replica make sure that your assumption that both are overall the same size is correct.
There are some photos that can be of use. There is also a drawing which I am sure you know about but I do not
know if it is exact.

Someone proposed to look for the patent and he is right.

Also, I am sure you know better then I do as a musician but I still would like to remind you that cone bells are not as good as
spheric bells. This I tell you from experience. Whenever I rang a bell that is cone shaped it did not sound as good or as long as
its spheric counterpart. Maybe I came across bad conic bells ) Also remember that the holes of the cavity heater (the one with the motor) are not conic. These are just to make you think further.

Speaking of long sounding bells would a Tibetan singing bowl more efficient?

[devrimogun]

@FatBird ,

Thanks for the picture...
I never seen this thing before!
Actually, according to Goggle, it also exists in France.

According also to few personal experiments -and should I repeat myself -
you can heat water very fast with a 'Davey-like' device but if it is not
well tuned you will also use a lot of amps...

I tried to boil more than 4 liters of water with the 220 Volt alternative grid current
My 16 amps fuses did not appreciate. I could only reach about 76?.
My calculations gave a COP=/= 100%

Anyway - as I told before - a relative of mine, once, stumbled upon a
very strange behavior = the amp consumption was tremendously decreasing after a short while.
But -as far as I am aware of it- he could not manage to reproduce this phenomenon.

BTW: These Davey-like devices are also able to make electrolysis when 'DC fed' and when
the 2 cups are close. (closer than in the picture)

So, IMHO a device worth to be experimented by a good builder/fitter. I'm a poor builder.




Best

@NerzhDishual I also speak French and visited your blog about your replica. I do not think that you are a poor builder
and your experiment setup looks fine. Thanks for your efforts. But I believe that you missed THE important points which
are the 2 tunings (freq. of the smaller bell and the distance between the two bells) as you were missing some knowledge.

That must be the reason for high amperage that got drawn and still you calculated an almost 100%COP. In my opinion
this result of 100% still means a lot as you were converting AC into sound and heating water in the end!
So how can  it be 100% if this gizmo did not have that something extra we are all looking for? It could have easily been
110% for example or more, 100% is just a coincidence!

@Storre knows about frequencies so I hope he will be more successful with his replication. In my opinion
a replication should be started with good quality bells and when the frequency and distance tuning is right we will get somewhere.

Regards,

[devrimogun]

OK, how about his new sphere design?

Did he change to spheric design because it is easier to tune a sphere into resonance?
The article says "So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944." Can we find the patent? It would answer many questions.

Read the whole article http://merlib.org/node/5504
Here you can watch a video of his heater in action.

@newage we know very little about this later model so lets concentrate on the earlier one.
According to hearsay, that one is already extraordinary!