Tri-Force Magnets - Finally shown to be OU?

[Yadaraf]

@Yadaraf,

Explain how every grade schooler knows that the self-starting is completely bogus for OU. On the contrary, every grade schooler knows that OU cannot be achieved by using just time independent magnetic field. There's nothing new to be learned regarding this. Repeating over and over the same impossibility in different variants and designs is not a learning process. It's like touching every time a hot stove to learn that it hurts. This case isn't as drastic but in intellectual sense it is the same. No need for that.

@Omni

First, you misquoted me.  Second, today's grade schoolers are very resourceful and know how to use the Internet.

...  From Wiki:  "However, perpetual motion usually refers to a device or system that delivers more energy than was put into it."

What does "put into it" mean?  It means the system can be started externally and does not have to be self-starting.  I think ANY grade schooler would know that.

Cheers

Yada..
.

[Yadaraf]

@Yadaraf,

It seems you still believe @alsetalokin's effect is real and his contraption is worth exploring further. What makes you think so?

@Omni,

After reading the transcript between Al and OC during the months of October through January, I concluded that Al was sincere in his research and astounded by the results and unexplained phenomenon.  The dialog seems very genuine to me.

I also wondered why anyone would arbitrarily add magnet dampers to such a system, unless it exhibited run away characteristics.

.. and there is the objective data from the video -- the two speed plateaus in particular.

Is the WhipMag the "real deal?"  For me it doesn't hurt to think that it is.  It has not been disproved at this point -- simply not replicated.

Lastly, as a scientist/engineer/philosopher I grow more by accepting the possibility rather than the impossibility


Cheers

Yada..
.

[Omnibus]

@Yadaraf,

Explain how every grade schooler knows that the self-starting is completely bogus for OU. On the contrary, every grade schooler knows that OU cannot be achieved by using just time independent magnetic field. There's nothing new to be learned regarding this. Repeating over and over the same impossibility in different variants and designs is not a learning process. It's like touching every time a hot stove to learn that it hurts. This case isn't as drastic but in intellectual sense it is the same. No need for that.

@Omni

First, you misquoted me.  Second, today's grade schoolers are very resourceful and know how to use the Internet.

...  Second sentence from Wiki:  "However, perpetual motion usually refers to a device or system that delivers more energy than was put into it."

What does "put into it" mean?  It means the system can be started externally and does not have to be self-starting.  I think ANY grade schooler would tell you that.

Cheers

Yada..
.

In that sense you're absolutely right. The definitive proof for that is the SMOT, as is already known. You know that I agree with that categorically. And I have proven conclusively that that's the case. So there's nothing to discuss in this respect.

There is a psychological barrier, however, which has to be overcome for this to be accepted by society and that is to build a pmm. Again, building a pmm is just a psychological barrier to be overcome and not a scientific necessity to prove violation of CoE (perpetual motion in the sense cited by you in Wiki).

For a pmm to be real self-starting is a must. There's a remote possibility that imparting outside energy from the onset may cause additional effects to kick in causing OU and that was the reason why I took interest in @alsetalokin's device after initially rejecting it for not being a self-starter. It was a failure, however, and at this point there's no reason to believe that a device other than a self-starter can be a working pmm.

This is what I had in mind. Again, as everybody knows that OU (violation of CoE) can be achieved is something I'm convinced completely in. However, that doesn't mean that clothing that in a working pmm is as straightforward as it seems to some.

Thus, since this thread is practically about constructing a working pmm (not so much as to whether or not OU is real, which has been categorically proven to be the latter) I insist once again, experiments with time-independent magnetic fields with the aim of constructing working pmm's is a dead end, a waste of time. There must an additional assisting conservative field somehow favorably superimposed to attain self-sustaining rotation of a pmm.

[Omnibus]

@Yadaraf,

It seems you still believe @alsetalokin's effect is real and his contraption is worth exploring further. What makes you think so?

@Omni,

After reading the transcript between Al and OC during the months of October through January, I concluded that Al was sincere in his research and astounded by the results and unexplained phenomenon.  The dialog seems very genuine to me.

I also wondered why anyone would arbitrarily add magnet dampers to such a system, unless it exhibited run away characteristics.

.. and there is the objective data from the video -- the two speed plateaus in particular.

Is the WhipMag the "real deal?"  For me it doesn't hurt to think that it is.  It has not been disproved at this point -- simply not replicated.

Lastly, as a scientist/engineer/philosopher I grow more by accepting the possibility rather than the impossibility


Cheers

Yada..
.

The nasty thing about such scams as the one @alsetalokin pulled on us is that it can never be disproved. He can play forever the game and lie to us that the effect he has shown is real and he can always blame it on the replicators' lack of ability and skills for not being able to reproduce it. This is a dirty game played by who knows who for all kinds of purposes one may suspect.

You are considering @alsetalokin sincere but you're forgetting what he's continuously saying--on the one hand he insists the effect he shows isn't a result of a foul play while on the other he clearly states that what he has intended to do with this is to show that something false is false. That's cynical to no end. It is offensive to the intellect of everyone involved and shows no sincerity at all. The seeming sincerity during the discussion with @overconfident is a part of the game. He has taken one obviously incompetent random person such as @overconfident who doesn't know his place and has deliberately entangled him in his disgusting politely arrogant game whose main intention is to teach people interested in this question a lesson. Like I said, this may not be his personal game but a game in which he plays just the role of a lackey to certain well known forces. Of course, ultimately it's a losing game which will teach lessons other than the ones intended by its perpetrators but it's for sure annoying while it lasts.

Therefore, as you can see I don't buy this "sincerity" argument as something that would warrant further interest in that hoax. There's absolutely nothing interesting in it and it should be abandoned at once as any hoax should. If the hoaxer @alsetalokin disagrees with this, now deserved, qualification he knows what he should do to clear his name.

[Yadaraf]

For a pmm to be real self-starting is a must. There's a remote possibility that imparting outside energy from the onset may cause additional effects to kick in causing OU and that was the reason why I took interest in @alsetalokin's device after initially rejecting it for not being a self-starter. It was a failure, however, and at this point there's no reason to believe that a device other than a self-starter can be a working pmm.

Omni,

Consider the effect of natural geophysical resonances or atmospheric electrodynamics on magnetodynamic devices.  From my point of view, a rotating PMM interacts -- resonates? -- with these phenomenon.  Having said that it might be necessary to "coax" the PMM device into rotation, such that it synchronizes with these naturally occurring, rhythmic phenomenon, after which it remains parasitic providing that the Earth continues to spin or lightning continues to strike.  Under these conditions, to me, the PMM will rotate "forever." 

However, because it is parasitic it is not OU.  There is no such thing as OU.  OU is a substitute for what we do not understand and cannot comprehend due to the limit of our five senses and crude "scientific" instrumentation, which we design to study our three dimensional surrounding.  Some brave souls are developing technology to see beyond 3D - the CERN LHC for example.  To me OU is the equivalent of dark matter, which astrophysicists conjured up to explain that which they did not understand: "The universe doesn't make sense, so let's blame it on dark matter."  Anyone who claims that they have an OU device has not studied hyperdimensional physics nor the life of Copernicus.

Furthermore, consider that the Earth is big PMM -- or several coaxial, spherical PMMS.  It spins just fine, although it is slowing down at present.  Literature tells us that periodically Earth stops spinning and then reverses direction when the heliosphere and/or the magnetosphere undergo dramatic changes.  How does such a large body start rotating again and continue to do so for aeons?

In short, I am more than willing to approach the dynamics of the PMM from a geophysical, hyperdimensional, and even metaphysical perspective.  In addition, I don't think science really understands magnetostatics, but that is another story.

Cheers

Yada..
.