Overunity Device using Magnets in the 1920's ?

[tao]

Hans,

Thanks for the historic expose into this unique device.

Looking at the progression of designs that you have shown us, its obvious that there is definite GAIN (seen from the volume increases) going on this the successively designed devices.

Now, based on what I am thinking and seeing, I'd think that increasing the magnetic fields of the horseshoe magnet (or using a more modern setup with NdFebs, etc) would result is increased 'volume'. Therein lies the mechanism for GAIN, the shear presence of the permanent magnet(s), period.

Now, how does the presence of the horseshoe magnet (with pole shoes) increase the effective output (volume) of the device?

I am thinking along these lines (mind you, I usually ponder things much longer before posting, so excuse any errors in spelling or thought, lol):



1. The device is at rest: the soft iron reed (B) is being equally attracted to both pole pieces of the horseshoe magnet which causes the soft iron reed (B) to stay right where it is. The mounting (H) and the spring steel (G) help the soft iron reed (B) stay right in the middle of the two poles of the horseshoe magnet. (Picture the mounting (H) and spring steel (G) pieces, as they are connected with the soft iron reed (B), picture this like a spring for the purposes of our discussion)

2. Now, when a current flows through the coil (A), a magnetic field will be setup along the length of the soft iron reed (B). Now, this is where I feel the GAIN is, because there is a magnetic now setup in the soft iron reed (B) and no matter how small that magnetic field is, there is now a disruption of equilibrium between the soft iron reed (B) and the horseshoes poles. So, in effect the equilibrium that was in Step 1 is now no longer. So, depending on the orientation of the magnetic field setup in the soft iron reed (B), the pole pieces of the horseshoe magnet will now attract and repulse the soft iron reed (B). An example would be, if at the end of the soft iron reed (B), that is near the poles of the horseshoe magnet, there is setup a south pole for instance, then the south pole piece of the horseshoe magnet will now repulse the soft iron reed (B) and the north pole piece will attract the soft iron reed (B). The force of these attractions and repulsions would be based on two variables, the strength of the horseshoe's pole pieces and the strength of the magnetic field setup in the soft iron reed (B) by the coil (A). Therefore, one could conclude that using stronger permanent magnets would result in MORE GAIN in this device.

3. Now, how does the soft iron reed (B) get back to the Step 1, for instance when the incoming audio signal to coil (A) alternates polarity, or the signal to the device via coil (A) is no longer incoming? Well, the answers to these two situations involve two effects I feel. One is the SPRING effect. Remember I said to think of the mounting (H) and the spring steel (G) as a spring. The other effect is the changed magnetic field on the soft iron reed (B) when the coil (A) reverses polarity or stops a signal all together. Now, for the case when coil (A) changes the magnetic field on the soft iron reed (B), the two effects combine to cause the soft iron reed (B) to move in the opposite direction. The one effect is the mere fact that coil (A) is producing an opposite magnetic field on the soft iron reed (B) which will cause a repulsion of the soft iron reed (B) from its current position, and the second effect involved would be the RELEASING of the energy now stored in the SPRING effect of the mounting (H) and spring steel (G). These combined things will cause the soft iron reed (B) to move to the opposite pole of the horseshoe magnet. Now, in the case where coil (A) is no longer providing a signal, this means that there won't be an impressed magnetic field on the soft iron reed (B) by coil (A) anymore and this fact and the ensuing RELEASING of the energy built up in the SPRING made up of the mounting (H) and the spring steel (G) will ALLOW the soft iron reed (B) to get BACK TO a state of equilibrium that it had in Step 1.

PHEW...

I can explain what I have written if anyone doesn't get it. It's about 1am, so again, please excuse any spelling or thought errors...

More on this from me later, heheh.

[gaby de wilde]

He shows us even the most Heretic septic can lead out creative bursts or at least pulses of creativity.

Still I find my own explanation some what less complicated.

http://forum.go-here.nl/viewtopic.php?p=750
View topic - Perpetual motion made simple.

I have been called a lot of things before, heretic - yes,  skeptic  -  yes,  Heretic septic LOL Never, I like it!

Incidentally Gaby, your idea has merit. There was a similar system working in the 1930's where it was used to amplify sound. I don't know how good your German is but have a search under Freischwinger Lautsprecher. The system was used in the wartime German Volksempfaenger. Literature in English on the subject is non existent, just a few references to soft iron loudspeakers, nothing definitive.

Hans von Lieven

Is this what you mean?

@ Gaby,

Yes,

But let's leave uncle Adolf out of the picture.

It is the technology of the speaker (as in loudspeaker and not political speaker) I am talking about. The speaker, as used in the Volksempfaenger, was capable of reproducing sound with an unpowered crystal radio as a source, if used instead of the customary headphones. We are talking here about Micro-watts driving a 5 inch paper cone with the assistance of permanent magnets. If this is not getting close to overunity I don't know what is.

The system was made obsolete, not because of efficiency, but because of its poor performance where sound quality (fidelity) was concerned. It simply could not compete in this area against the newly invented moving coil loudspeakers.

Hans von Lieven

Very nice, thanks for this.

The system was made obsolete, not because of efficiency, but because of its poor performance where sound quality (fidelity) was concerned.

Yes, indeed I keep reading no no this is not good move on nothing to see here kinda articles.

A bit like when some one said the halbach array was dangerous. haha You know like hydrogen? Danger danger? lol

It simply could not compete in this area against the newly invented moving coil loudspeakers.

Hans von Lieven

Sure, we only need one good speaker, the rest is often forgotten about.

Here is some more info on the idea.

Perpetual motion made simple

Well Gaby,

Jokes aside,

I was serious, for once, in this thread. I have been working for a while on this, ever since Gustav Pese and I discussed the subject some 2 or 3 months ago. I put the finishing touches on my essay and put it up on the forum under

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,4172.0/topicseen.html

Maybe it will be of help

Hans von Lieven

Well Hans, don't forget that I'm the one who has been working at this for quite some time. I asked you for your opinion of my work. you was working at the earth batteries and the milkovic pendulum and at lawrence.

you say, "Incidentally Gaby, your idea has merit." and "Jokes aside, I was serious, for once, in this thread. I have been working for a while on this," And now this new topic where you disclose "your" grandiose idea that you worked at for some time. While you was the serious guy? And I was the incidental factor?  Dude, you have only just begun taking the whole topic seriously.

I bet 10 min from now you even see merit in a Hamel spinner. hahahaha

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/wesley-gary/?wmf=/../perpetual-motion.wmv

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/?v=FaJb6uh-VuU

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/3-point-interaction

http://magnetmotor.go-here.nl/flux-switching

Then years later Hans says:

"Today I want to put a subject into the arena that to my knowledge has never been discussed here"

Sure hans!

pffff!!

[gyulasun]

Hi Folks,

I fully agree with the GAIN as Tao termed it in the setup referred to and it comes from adding flux from permanent magnet to that of electromagnet and the higher the flux of the permanent magnet the smaller input power is needed for the electromagnet for a certain task to fulfill.  Fine, so far so good. The GAIN manifests in less input power to the electromagnet.

I would like to understand how or why this will bring us to overunity?

rgds,  Gyula

[pese]

 


The FREISCHWINGER Loudspeackers ....
Whole series VOLKSEMPF?NGER had.
Did around 1950 with the father learned to repair such things (with 8-10 years ewis in garages).

Yes it is forgotten issue, which no one knows more and has garnicht of function.
I see that with perhaps a 1-2 watts GIANTS-VOLUME reached
TO and I simply so that the high
Magnetic coil Milliwatts needs only to the anchor of the funds situation.
This is in the "neutral zone" of the magnetic field.
(Also a rare term that hardly recognized)
BUT with the publishing from the neutral position is
Very stiff cardboard with membrane VIOLENCE alternately by North / South dressed!
There is an enormous power to the anchor "to attract" would, because the membrane forces against this magnet power.
That means the construction works as MAGNET-AMP, in the truest sense of the word! De will work through the membrane into efficient strong speaker sound wiedergegen ..
I have the "feeling" that the efficiency (by the magnetic force) is many times higher, than the current meters
Speaker all with irrational watt high-performance driven,

ADD at 28.febr.08

THE MEMBRANE was very hard attached in Chassis an very hard to move . Only with stronger forces
the mebrane was to move + - 1 mm  !!   With audio - sound it was less , ut very loud.
IT schowm that a low power on coil  can not make the power to move the menbrane . The (overunity?) Forces comes from the Magnets ,when the tongue is leaving the neutral zone and the magnetic forces added 

Gustav Pese

[hansvonlieven]

Hi Folks,

I fully agree with the GAIN as Tao termed it in the setup referred to and it comes from adding flux from permanent magnet to that of electromagnet and the higher the flux of the permanent magnet the smaller input power is needed for the electromagnet for a certain task to fulfill.  Fine, so far so good. The GAIN manifests in less input power to the electromagnet.

I would like to understand how or why this will bring us to overunity?

rgds,  Gyula

G'day Gyula and all,

By and large I agree with tao's assessment of the device. By adding the permanent magnet there is an enormous increase in mechanical power observable in the device without any more input power being consumed.

That means that the magnetic field adds energy of some sort into the system. Isn't this what we are looking for?

To my mind it is the use of the neutral point between the poles that opens up an avenue for heterodyning of some sort. The famous Neutral Centre that Keely continually talks about, which according to Keely has to be established first before any influx of energy form the ether, as he terms it, can take place. Keely states that by influencing the Neutral Centre of a device the whole equilibrium can be disturbed with less power than it takes to wind a watch (his words, not mine). It would appear that here is an example of this mechanism.

The mechanical gain exhibited by the Freischwinger has never been satisfactorily explained, physics books simply sweep the phenomenon under the carpet.

I am endeavouring to design a machine that makes use of this phenomenon. It is probably a better direction to follow than a lot of other ideas floating around. At least this one holds promise.

Hans von Lieven