Some clue on TPU device operation

[Vortex1]

Hello Rene

A note on load regulation: The devices tested by Schinzinger and others seemed to exhibit excellent load regulation, with no reported change in voltage output  with a two times load increase (amps).

This would point to one of two things, either an inherent extremely low output impedance of the generator or some form of feedback regulation to cause an effective low output impedance.

In a standard DC machine or generator, this can be accomplished by using the output current drain to directly modulate field current. In some DC machines an extra high current field winding is in series with the output of the DC machine. In this type of self excitation, load regulation can be excellent without any type of "active component regulation control circuit", providing the winding is properly sized (number of turns).

With this in mind, we can hypothesize that a bias winding could be in series with the output such that as more current is attempted to be drawn, a stronger biasing field is produced, thus greater alignment of flux and increased power output as in a DC machine.

This makes sense from the standpoint that the speed of the rotating field winds up slowly and cannot quickly slew to new values as loads change.

In the videos, SM makes intermittent contact with the lamps, going from no load to full load a few times. Also in the arcing probe tips as the flame discharge is demonstrated, no load to high load is shown without having to wait for the speed of rotation to catch up.
  As in a DC machine, speed is not necessarily varied, field intensity often is.

These ideas do not rule out active circuitry for output power control, they just point to alternative methods. Anyone familiar with DC rotating generators can appreciate this.

............V

[wattsup]

@Vortex1

In a DC Generator, increasing current draw will increase BEMF and thus increase drag, even if the field coils are directly coupled to the output through any component providing a ratio of output power to the field coil. The drag will still want to stop the generator and thus you will need to compensate with more torque on the drive motor. But from my experience with many DC generators, I have yet to see one that is directly coupling the field coil to the output. These types of generators will usually have a separate two wire connection to the field coils since usually, you will supply this with a different volts/amps then the output. Also the drive motor is usually a set capacity and the only way to produce a variable voltage output is by regulating the power going to the field coil.

This can be more directly seen by standard gas powered generators. The more current you draw, the electronic control will compensate by automatically making the gas engine run with more torque. That is the type of control one would require.

In the LTPU, voltage was already at 800 volts and from the number of lights connected, there was already at least 1 amp of current available. When he did the sparking, he used a resistor on the output. I do not believe that there is any ramping up of current during operation or more precisely during an increase in current draw. This is evident when you consider that each TPU had its particular load matched to it production capacity. On the LTPU, he did not first run it with 5 bulbs, then with 10 bulbs. He used 10 bulbs right away to match the output. The 6TPU was also matched with the loads at 120 volts via the vacuum cleaner, drill and TV via the inverter. The only TPU that showed a variable load was the OTPU when he plugged one then two lamps, but there, the demo presents many flaws including the possibility that the lamps had some batteries in them. The FTPU was never loaded.

[Vortex1]

Wattsup

I think we have a communications problem

In a DC Generator, increasing current draw will increase BEMF and thus increase drag, even if the field coils are directly coupled to the output through any component providing a ratio of output power to the field coil.

Totally agree, never said anything to the contrary.

The drag will still want to stop the generator and thus you will need to compensate with more torque on the drive motor.

Of course, Lenz's law has yet to be repealed. Did I say something contrary to this?

But from my experience with many DC generators, I have yet to see one that is directly coupling the field coil to the output. These types of generators will usually have a separate two wire connection to the field coils since usually, you will supply this with a different volts/amps then the output

I never said the field coil was directly connected to the output.  I said "this can be accomplished by using the output current drain to directly modulate field current. In some DC machines an extra high current field winding is in series with the output of the DC machine.

This is the same as using a current shunt on the output and feeding the mV signal from the current shunt to a control device for the field current.  Again, in the example I cited from DC machines at the turn of the century (last one, not this one) the current shunt comprises a few turns of heavy guage wire inside the machine, concentric with the normal field windings and in series with the output.

In this manner load is sensed and compensated automatically, provided the winding is properly sized in ampere turns.
Of course it would be utter stupidity to connect the field directly across the output. That is not what I was implying.

This can be more directly seen by standard gas powered generators. The more current you draw, the electronic control will compensate by automatically making the gas engine run with more torque. That is the type of control one would require.

In my post I was not referring to a closed loop gas driven generator system that we all are quite familiar with. I was referring to a DC machine as an auxiliary device on a much larger prime mover where feedback to the engine is not possible because it is being used as part of some other power system. e.g hydraulic

I do not believe that there is any ramping up of current during operation or more precisely during an increase in current draw.

Here we agree and this was exactly my point, there is no time to ramp up the current, so there must be an inherent excellent regulation capability within the device.

On the LTPU, he did not first run it with 5 bulbs, then with 10 bulbs. He used 10 bulbs right away to match the output.

In the Schinzinger report for the 15" unit he went from one bank of  5  (1.2 amps 614 volts) to two banks of 5 with not one volt drop until the unit heated up later. Then the measurement went down to 598 volts.  So instantaneous load regulation was slightly better than 0.2% considering the limit of readout resolution of the data supplied.

Sorry if I caused any confusion..........think I'll take a break, this bandwidth is too narrow

V

[Vortex1]

Short break

For further information on compound fields I have attached a PDF.

Google "series and compound dynamos" and you will get a good idea of the technique.

It appears nearly any regulation load line is possible with this method  from flat to a slight increase in output voltage when the load is increased (percent over compound.)

It is a clever means of load regulation of DC dynamos evolved before automatic electronic systems were possible. It's simplicity and robustness are appealing.

.......V