Hello

[fosgate3]

I am new to this forum--found it when I was doing some research on hho cell temperature. I thought I would join up and learn some things as well as maybe have something to contribute.

I became interested in hho cells during the past month in spite of my awareness of electrolysis, Tesla, and the like. It seems that I never put the pieces together till the price of gas hit $3 a gallon for unleaded here locally (its now $3.39 as of this morning). I have a 1995 F150 V8 used for work on the weekends and a 2007 Saturn Ion3 2.2L as a daily driver. The Ion is equipped with an Injen CAI that improved performance from 29mpg when the car was purchased (in spite of the EPA's estimate of 32) to 32mpg on average.

Last night, I installed my first hho cell in the Ion and tested it this morning. I haven't installed anything adjust the O2 sensor, just the cell: It's basically two 4" PVC (schedule 40) with a clean-out on each end, probably about 7 to 8 inches from end to end. Inside is a stacked array of SS shower drains purchased from Lowes (manufactured by a plumbing company called Oatey) that I cut to fit into pipe, about 6 (maybe 7) plates in all, approximately 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch space in between. The plates are staggered so that half have a SS bolt for positive and half are bolted for negative. The plates are held solid not only by the use of the bolts but also by nylon bolts threaded through the middle. The "bubbler" or water catcher or whatever the secondary assembly is called is made of 2inch clear vinyl tubing, about 3/16 inch thick, with the typical inlet and outlet, all of brass (just as is the case with the outlet of the cell--brass threaded plug).

I played around with different amounts of baking soda. In another 2-quart capacity cell I built for my truck which was made of a 4" PVC "T" with a clean-out on each end, SS coils on the inside, I used 6 tablespoons (yes, SIX) of baking soda b/c of I listened to an idiot on youtube. Needless to say, it burnt the fuse holder to a crisp (literally, crisp). I did more research with this second cell (which is 1-quart) and used about a teaspoon of soda. The cell is wired with 8 gauge power and grounded about 6 inches from its location. I figured that if in the world of car audio--an ongoing hobby of mine for the past 20years now--we should ground the amp with the shortest run of cable we can, it would be beneficial to do the same here. I am using a 40amp fuse about 4 inches from the positive connection to the power point under the hood (Ion's have the battery in the trunk with a power point in the hood) and then a 40amp auto-reset circuit breaker following that, as a dual protection. after that, I use a 40amp relay (87 to cell, 30 from power point; 85 to switch inside the car, 86 to ground) to send the power along to the cell.

With that description laid, the very first test run done this morning resulted in right at 61 miles traveled and 1.639 gallons used (when I refilled), which averages out to around 37 mpg, a 5mpg gain from my typical average of 32. This again, is with no mods to the O2 sensor. I checked under the hood when I traveled about 12 miles and then again at 36 miles, no problems noted. However, the "bubbler" was filling with water that appeared to be pretty hot!

I am open to suggestions, comments, and of course, respectful criticism. I am new to this and an amateur with electronics. So...someone give me some feedback!

Is it common for water to be filling up in the "bubbler" tube? I know heat is normal and I've read on here and in other places about using a PWM to assist (a vid from youtube stated the PWM will help lower the temp of the cell).

I have a device I purchased off of ebay that wires into the O2 sensor and supposedly allows for changing the voltage the sensor sees, so that it appears "normal" instead of lean. I intend on reverse engineering it if it works right. It came set for 300mV and I don't know if thats what is needed for my car. Other than a trial-and-error approach, I'm not sure how to find out what is optimum.

Thanks for reading...

[Creativity]

hey welcome to the forum
Well done! keep some record of your mileage,we would like to see it on the longer runs.

[fosgate3]

Thank you. I spent my lunch break examining the system and noted a strange yellowish residue on the underside of my oil fill cap. The point that I am using to get the hho gas into the intake is at a point where a 1/2 inch hose goes from the crankcase (I would call it that if it was in my truck) to the intake pipe. The hose is around 7 inches long. I cut and put in a T and then ran my output to the T. I had assume the intake would draw the hho gas in from that point very easily. However, now that I found the residue, I am not sure if that's the case. I'd sure like some input on this. I can take a picture if that would help (I think my digital camera is in my car).

I noticed too that all my water/soda mixture is gone. The clean-out lid that I used, that was tight when I installed it, was really loose. I'm assuming the water boiled out from there. I didn't use distilled water as I didnt have any available last night so my SS plates have a beautiful nasty-looking brown residue on it...or at least one of the plates does.

If my point of entry going into the intake is fine, I can go up to the local grocery store and get some distilled water and baking soda and try it all again.

[tacogrande]

The yellow gunk happens if you only take short trips in your car.  It is condensation collecting.  If you get the engine up to operating temp (10-20 miles) it will go away.  It won't hurt anything, it cooks off when the motor gets hot and exits through the PCV valve.  I wonder though if you have been taking long trips if the HHO is blowing by the rings and reforming into H2O in the crankcase, or if it is getting drawn into the crankcase through the hose you tapped into?  Sounds like you tapped into the PCV valve.  Hmm.  Maybe try moving the HHO injection to the airbox (if you have one). Maybe all your electrolyte got sucked into the crankcase?  Check your oil at the dipstick and see if it's milky colored, if it is change it immediately.  Don't run the motor with water in the oil, it won't last long.  If that's not the case and you "cooked off" your electrolyte, then reduce the amount of baking soda.  Use distilled water, you can get it at autoparts stores.  Start with one level teaspoon of baking soda for a gallon of water.  If that works good, then add another teaspoon.  If it cooks off you know you used too much.  You'll also notice if you use too much soda it will draw tons of amps and foam a lot. 

[fosgate3]

I checked the oil after I read your reply and did not notice anything abnormal. The car had been parked for a couple of hours by the time I had checked it but still there was no evidence of any water on the dipstick. So, I think everything is safe and the yellowish gunk I saw (albeit in minute amounts) was the condensation that you mentioned.

I purchased a gallon of distilled water from walmart on my way home and will try to fire it up for the morning commute to work tomorrow. 1 teaspoon for a gallon of water translates to 1/4 teaspoon for a quart. I had about 1 teaspoon in the quart cell during this morning's test. So, hopefully, it will do better.

Would using peroxide instead of water make a better difference...say, H₂O₂ and soda? (hopefully those subscripts came out as they should)

Has anyone experienced with oxalic acid (what is in the cleaning product "Bar Keeper's Friend")? I wonder what that would do, what the by products would be. Unfortunately, I have forgotten my 11th grade chemisty and how to combine substances with oxidations numbers and so forth!